About forward slips

wrote:
gatt wrote:

Three basic rules about slipping on final are 1) Don't stall, 2) Don't stall
and 3) Don't stall.


When I slip to landing, I always crank in some small forward (down)
trim just in case I get distracted. Am I the only one that's this
paranoid?

Yes, you are.

Matt

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

wrote:
gatt wrote:

Three basic rules about slipping on final are 1) Don't stall, 2) Don't stall
and 3) Don't stall.


When I slip to landing, I always crank in some small forward (down)
trim just in case I get distracted. Am I the only one that's this
paranoid?

Yes, you are.

Matt

When I was practicing for my CFI ride, I was doing cross-controlled stalls
in an Arrow. Once you get over the initial concept that you're
intentionally trying to do what you've always been taught you're never
supposed to do, you quickly discover that (at least in an Arrow), it's
almost impossible to get the damn thing to actually stall like that. Full
rudder, full opposite ailerion, idle power, and full back elevator. The
damn thing just sort of slowly yaws (pro-rudder, as I remember), and mushes
like a wounded duck with its nose up the air.

Well, except for the one time that I did actually manage to get it to
stall. That was a little more exciting. My first indication that
something was wrong was when my flight bag went bouncing off the cabin
ceiling :-)

In article ,
Roy Smith wrote:

When I was practicing for my CFI ride, I was doing cross-controlled stalls
in an Arrow. Once you get over the initial concept that you're
intentionally trying to do what you've always been taught you're never
supposed to do, you quickly discover that (at least in an Arrow), it's
almost impossible to get the damn thing to actually stall like that. Full
rudder, full opposite ailerion, idle power, and full back elevator. The
damn thing just sort of slowly yaws (pro-rudder, as I remember), and mushes
like a wounded duck with its nose up the air.
Well, except for the one time that I did actually manage to get it to
stall. That was a little more exciting. My first indication that
something was wrong was when my flight bag went bouncing off the cabin
ceiling :-)

Do that in a Tcraft or a Cessna 170 and you will be on your back before
you can stop your eyeballs on the horizon. It is called a snap- (or
flick-) roll. If you do not know how to fly inverted or recover from
inverted spins, you don't want to explore the possibility.

gatt writes:

Executing a forward slip, for its most basic flight-sim-type purposes,
involves lowering one wing with the aileron and using opposite rudder to
keep the aircraft oriented; it can be dangerous at slow speeds because the
crossed controls create a perfect condition for spin entry on a stall during
short final.

I worry that it might somehow lead me into danger, but some of the
stuff I've read claims that slips are very unlikely to produce stalls,
unlike skids, which supposedly are known for that. The FAA book even
claims that some aircraft have better stall behavior in a slip, if I
understand it correctly.

The oppose rudder (if left wing is dipped, right rudder is applied)
introduces drag as the tail is no longer aligned with the direction of
travel, and the airflow comes over the wing at an angle instead of direct,
reducing the component of lift across the airfoil.

I was wondering what was absorbing the kinetic energy of the aircraft,
since normally a loss of altitude requires an increase in airspeed, if
nothing absorbs the energy.

Three basic rules about slipping on final are 1) Don't stall, 2) Don't stall
and 3) Don't stall.

And how do I avoid stalls while slipping?

--
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On 10/31/06 9:43 PM, in article ,
"Mxsmanic" wrote:

I worry that it might somehow lead me into danger, [snip]


Ahhh, the dreaded "Blue Screen of Death". Courage, O Intrepid One, courage.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Wizard of Draws writes:

Ahhh, the dreaded "Blue Screen of Death".

I meant an impact with terrain.

--
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On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 05:41:53 +0100, Mxsmanic wrote:

I meant an impact with terrain.

Don't drink while you simulate. It makes falling out of your chair less
likely.

On 10/31/06 11:41 PM, in article ,
"Mxsmanic" wrote:

Wizard of Draws writes:

Ahhh, the dreaded "Blue Screen of Death".

I meant an impact with terrain.

Place a few fluffy pillows around your chair and you'll be fine.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Howdy!

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:
gatt writes:

Executing a forward slip, for its most basic flight-sim-type purposes,
involves lowering one wing with the aileron and using opposite rudder to
keep the aircraft oriented; it can be dangerous at slow speeds because the
crossed controls create a perfect condition for spin entry on a stall during
short final.

That statement is just flat incorrect. It's the skidding turn that
creates the dangerous condition. Crossed controls are not, per se,
risky. They merely set up a way to dump altitude without picking
up excess speed, or to make the airplane fly somewhat sideways, in
order to maintain alignment with a ground feature in a crosswind.

I worry that it might somehow lead me into danger, but some of the
stuff I've read claims that slips are very unlikely to produce stalls,
unlike skids, which supposedly are known for that. The FAA book even
claims that some aircraft have better stall behavior in a slip, if I
understand it correctly.

That's a pretty reasonably synopsis. Slips are less likely to degenerate
into a spin, while skids are much more risky.

In a skid, you are (ab-)using the rudder to try to yaw the plane more
quickly than you can with the coordinated turn you were in. That causes
outside wing to move faster (and the inside wing slower). If you get
too vigorous, you might slow the inside wing enough to induce a stall.
That causes the inside wing to drop rapidly, leading quickly to a
spin. This is Real Bad if you were trying to hurry that base to final
turn that you got a bit sloppy with...


Three basic rules about slipping on final are 1) Don't stall, 2) Don't stall
and 3) Don't stall.

And how do I avoid stalls while slipping?

Don't pull back too hard on the stick. Simply entering a slip won't
cause a stall. It may cause you to go down faster than you want,
but it won't lead to a stall. Slips are rudder-aileron drills.

yours,
Michael

--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix narrowwares
Bowie, MD, USA | http://whitewolfandphoenix.com
Proud member of the SCA Internet Whitewash Squad

Michael Houghton wrote:
Howdy!

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:
gatt writes:

Executing a forward slip, for its most basic flight-sim-type purposes,
involves lowering one wing with the aileron and using opposite rudder to
keep the aircraft oriented; it can be dangerous at slow speeds because the
crossed controls create a perfect condition for spin entry on a stall during
short final.

That statement is just flat incorrect. It's the skidding turn that
creates the dangerous condition. Crossed controls are not, per se,
risky. They merely set up a way to dump altitude without picking
up excess speed, or to make the airplane fly somewhat sideways, in
order to maintain alignment with a ground feature in a crosswind.

I worry that it might somehow lead me into danger, but some of the
stuff I've read claims that slips are very unlikely to produce stalls,
unlike skids, which supposedly are known for that. The FAA book even
claims that some aircraft have better stall behavior in a slip, if I
understand it correctly.

That's a pretty reasonably synopsis. Slips are less likely to degenerate
into a spin, while skids are much more risky.

In a skid, you are (ab-)using the rudder to try to yaw the plane more
quickly than you can with the coordinated turn you were in. That causes
outside wing to move faster (and the inside wing slower). If you get
too vigorous, you might slow the inside wing enough to induce a stall.
That causes the inside wing to drop rapidly, leading quickly to a
spin. This is Real Bad if you were trying to hurry that base to final
turn that you got a bit sloppy with...

The inside wing has a higher angle of attack than the
outside wing in a descending turn, and skidding increases that
difference to the point that a stall could become a spin instantly. The
speed difference between wings is minimal. The AOA difference is
dependent on the angle of descent, radius of turn, and the amount of
opposite aileron applied. In the slip, the difference in AOA decreases,
making it a much safer maneuver than it appears to the uninitiated.
I built a special table with several sets of parallel rails
representing the various phases of flight, and a model airplane's wings
set on the rails shows the AOA differences and makes it all really
clear to my students.

Dan