About forward slips

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oups.com...
Mxsmanic wrote:
What's the proper procedure to execute a forward slip, how should the
aircraft be expected to react when it is performed, and what are the


This might help... http://tinyurl.com/yhd7km

You might want to do it in an emergency descent situation when you find
yourself very near an airfield and are too high to make a normal
approach and you've to suddenly lose a lot of altitude.

Ramapriya
not a pilot, so don't listen to me


Now Ramapriya is a perfect example of a nonpilot that has meshed into the
group. He asked some pretty silly questions when he first started posting
but he has spent some time around here and learned things about flying. You
could really take some pointers from him Manic.

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

Now Ramapriya is a perfect example of a nonpilot that has meshed into the
group. He asked some pretty silly questions when he first started posting
but he has spent some time around here and learned things about flying. You
could really take some pointers from him Manic.

I'm not trying to join a boys' club. I'm trying to learn about
aviation.

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Mxsmanic wrote in
:

I'm not trying to join a boys' club. I'm trying to learn about
aviation.

Then look up your questions on the internet, and if you have questions,
then post your question with the reference you looked up.

Then you can say you are trying to learn....

Allen

A Lieberma writes:

Then look up your questions on the internet, and if you have questions,
then post your question with the reference you looked up.

Then you can say you are trying to learn....

I had hoped that this newsgroup would have a high concentration of
people knowledgeable about piloting, but it appears that I may have
been excessively optimistic.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

Now Ramapriya is a perfect example of a nonpilot that has meshed into the
group. He asked some pretty silly questions when he first started posting
but he has spent some time around here and learned things about flying.
You
could really take some pointers from him Manic.

I'm not trying to join a boys' club. I'm trying to learn about
aviation.


And you might if you took the path that Ramapriya has in this group.

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

And you might if you took the path that Ramapriya has in this group.

I don't do initiations or hazings.

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On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:35:22 +0100, Mxsmanic wrote:

What's the proper procedure to execute a forward slip, how should the
aircraft be expected to react when it is performed, and what are the
main uses of the forward slip?

Ideally, the plane should drop like a shotgunned duck. The velocity vector
remains pointed in the same direction, but the aircraft is maneuvered so that it
is no longer pointed in the direction of the relative wind. Hence...lots more
drag, which means the descent angle can be steeper.

The main use is that it allows you to maintain a reserve of altitude that you
can get rid of quickly once making the runway is assured. Or, if landing on a
runway with a physical barrier at the approach end (a line of trees, for
instance), one can increase the descent rate once clear of the trees and land
earlier on the runway.

And why is it called a _forward_ slip?

Because the airplane, while in a turning attitude, does not turn...it travels in
the same direction it was before the maneuver started.

Here's a couple of videos. This one is shot from an axle-mounted camera on my
airplane:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/slip.wmv

The second one is video taken from the ground of me performing the same manu
ever on a different day:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/slip2.wmv

Somebody said that MSFS cannot simulate forward slips correctly. What
is missing in the simulation?

The Fly Baby model on MSFS can't, but I always figured that was my fault. :-)

Ron Wanttaja

Ron Wanttaja writes:

Ideally, the plane should drop like a shotgunned duck.

I've achieved some fairly high descent rates (faster than I could
normally achieve by other means), but not as fast as I've been led to
believe a slip could achieve. The plane keeps wanting to fly. I'll
grant that it's extremely difficult to coordinate the controls with a
twist-throttle rudder control (which is extremely sensitive).

The velocity vector
remains pointed in the same direction, but the aircraft is maneuvered so that it
is no longer pointed in the direction of the relative wind. Hence...lots more
drag, which means the descent angle can be steeper.

I presume that if I do it correctly, then, there should be no change
in the actual direction of motion of the aircraft, but only a change
in its orientation in the air, right? I haven't achieved that thus
far.

Because the airplane, while in a turning attitude, does not turn...it travels in
the same direction it was before the maneuver started.

So if I'm going straight in and I do a forward flip, I should be able
to look off to the left out the window and see the runway approaching
me (or to the right, although that might be harder from the left
seat).

Here's a couple of videos. This one is shot from an axle-mounted camera on my
airplane:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/slip.wmv

The second one is video taken from the ground of me performing the same manu
ever on a different day:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/slip2.wmv

Nicely done. I gather that you were actually looking sideways down at
the runway, and not in the direction the axle-mounted camera was
looking?

I've managed to get the aircraft to descend kind of that way, but it's
very hard to keep it stable and aligned with the runway. However, I
notice that even in your case the aircraft moves around a bit.

The Fly Baby model on MSFS can't, but I always figured that was
my fault. :-)

Or you had automatic rudder coordination turned on (it's the default).

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

I've achieved some fairly high descent rates (faster than I could
normally achieve by other means), but not as fast as I've been led to
believe a slip could achieve. The plane keeps wanting to fly.

As long as their is unbroken airflow over the wings, there will be lift.
If there's one single indicator of the effectiveness of a slip, it's
probably the VSI
(vertical speed indicator, or rate-of-climb indicator.) If it's an extreme
slip, another indicator might be your unnerved passenger contemplating
exiting the airplane before landing, but that's one of those
seat-of-your-pants indicators that should be avoided.

The plane will still keep flying--you want it to. You REALLY don't want
that airflow boundary layer to separate from the wing. But if your normal
rate of descent at a given airspeed and power confuration is, say, 500 fpm,
in a slip the airspeed will be about the same but your rate of descent would
indicate maybe 1000 fpm. (These numbers are just for example and not
reflective of any particular aircraft.)

I presume that if I do it correctly, then, there should be no change
in the actual direction of motion of the aircraft, but only a change
in its orientation in the air, right? I haven't achieved that thus
far.

Correct. In the slip, the airplane will seem to have one wing pointed
forward and tipped down. The pilot will keep the airplane ground track
aligned with the runway, but the nose will actually be a few degrees off of
center.

So if I'm going straight in and I do a forward flip, I should be able
to look off to the left out the window and see the runway approaching
me

Yes. Probably somewhere around 11 o'clock to the nose.

-c

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:42:13 +0100, Mxsmanic wrote:

I presume that if I do it correctly, then, there should be no change
in the actual direction of motion of the aircraft, but only a change
in its orientation in the air, right? I haven't achieved that thus
far.

So if I'm going straight in and I do a forward flip, I should be able
to look off to the left out the window and see the runway approaching
me (or to the right, although that might be harder from the left
seat).... [Ref. the video]... I gather that you were actually looking
sideways down at the runway, and not in the direction the axle-mounted
camera was looking?

Yep. Here's another video that should answer most of the above questions:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/slip3.wmv

Note that the aircraft attitude stays fairly flat. The tail mounting of the
camera does exaggerate the amount of offset, as you can see that my head doesn't
have to move all that much to keep tracking the touchdown point.

The Fly Baby model on MSFS can't, but I always figured that was
my fault. :-)

Or you had automatic rudder coordination turned on (it's the default).

Considering I designed the Fly Baby MSFS model, it's my fault either way. :-)

Actually, the problem is more the limited throw of the yaw control. The Fly
Baby has a very powerful rudder, but the pedals have a fairly long travel. That
makes it easy to input the precise amount of yaw. On the computer, the stick
only wiggles ~10 degrees left and right. I can run the rudder scalars up on the
MSFS config file, but then the rudder control gets too sensitive for normal
operations. Even a set of rudder pedals (older Thrustmasters) didn't give
enough control throw.

BTW, for those who are interested in seeing the complete videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubDOG4E_pXs#GU5U2spHI_4

....uses the external camera positions and

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...Baby-N500F.wmv

has the shots from the ground plus a little air-to-air. As a side note, look
how much the rudder moves to keep the plane tracking straight as the tail
touches down. Would require some SERIOUS wriggling on a computer control
stick....

Ron Wanttaja