Questions about homebuilding, and the Sportman 2+2 in particular

Hi, I'm new here (but not to other rec.aviation groups - I was there
before they split). I a 400 hour pilot with a life long dream of flying
floats, and starting to think that a kit plane might be the only solution.

I was recently reading about the Sportman 2+2 and their "two weeks to
taxi" program, and as well as being a plane that seems to fit my mission,
that program seems to address all my reservations about kit planes:
- the long build time
- the danger that your flying skills will atrophy if you spend all your
spare moments building a plane for years instead of flying
- the need for a building space
- the need to buy a bunch of tools you won't need after it's built
- the fear that you might do something wrong and not notice until it's too
late

I was hoping others here could comment on this program specifically, and
also some other questions about kit planes.

Is it true that a kit plane has limitations about what you can do with it?
What limitations? Also, is it true that as a builder, you're authorized
to act as your own A&P? Does that extend to IA as well?

Not so much on topic for this group, but in general, how much time and
effort does it take to switch a plane between floats and wheels and
vice-versa? Is this something you can decide to do for the weekend, or is
it more of a "once per season when the lakes freeze" sort of thing?

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"I kept the faith and I kept voting/Not for the iron fist but for the helping
hand/For theirs is a land with a wall around it/And mine is a faith in my
fellow man" --Billy Bragg

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
Hi, I'm new here (but not to other rec.aviation groups - I was there
before they split). I a 400 hour pilot with a life long dream of flying
floats, and starting to think that a kit plane might be the only solution.

SNIP
I was hoping others here could comment on this program specifically, and
also some other questions about kit planes.

Is it true that a kit plane has limitations about what you can do with it?
What limitations? Also, is it true that as a builder, you're authorized
to act as your own A&P? Does that extend to IA as well?

Pretty much yes to all of the above. You can't rent the experimental out but
you can take lessons in your own plane. You can't carry people or property
for compensation or hire in it, but after the flight test period is over you
can do pretty much whatever you are legally capable of doing as long as the
aircraft is equiped properly.

One thing you should keep in mind. There has been some noise that the FAA
was goinging crack down on these commercial "Builder Assitance" programs. So
be careful.




Not so much on topic for this group, but in general, how much time and
effort does it take to switch a plane between floats and wheels and
vice-versa? Is this something you can decide to do for the weekend, or is
it more of a "once per season when the lakes freeze" sort of thing?


I think it is going to depend on the plane and the floats but I'd not like
to do it very often on the ones I've seen.

("Paul Tomblin" wrote)
I was recently reading about the Sportman 2+2 and their "two weeks to
taxi" program, and as well as being a plane that seems to fit my mission,
that program seems to address all my reservations about kit planes:


This month's EAA Sport Aviation magazine (April 2006)

http://www.eaa.org/benefits/sportaviation/
Sportsman 2+2 on the cover

http://www.eaa.org/benefits/sportavi...04_feature.pdf
Story


Montblack

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:13:45 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
Tomblin) wrote:

Hi, Paul...long time no see.

I was hoping others here could comment on this program specifically, and
also some other questions about kit planes.

Is it true that a kit plane has limitations about what you can do with it?
What limitations? Also, is it true that as a builder, you're authorized
to act as your own A&P? Does that extend to IA as well?

A kit airplane is licensed in the Experimental category, under the "Operating
Amateur-Built Aircraft" provision. Experimental aircraft cannot be operated for
hire or reward...so you can't, for instance, lease-back a completed kit aircraft
to an FBO. It used to be that Experimental/Amateur-Built aircraft were
prohibited from overflying congested areas, but this is no longer the case.

The builder of a Experimental/Amateur-Built aircraft can receive a Repairman
Certificate that permits them to perform the annual condition inspection of the
aircraft. It does not authorize them to perform maintenance...because,
basically, there ARE no limitations on who can maintain Experimental/
Amateur-Built aircraft. Anyone can maintain a homebuilt. FAR 43, which
establishes the maintenance requirements for most aircraft, specifically does
not apply to aircraft with Experimental certificates. There is no FAA
regulation that requires that homebuilts receive annual inspections.

However, when they award airworthiness certificates to homebuilts, the FAA
requires the aircraft comply with a set of operational limitations that are
provided at the same time. The operational limitations invariably require that
the aircraft undergo an annual condition inspection to the scope and depth of
FAR 43 Appendix D...the section that establishes what must be done at annual and
100-hour inspections. The limitations state that either the holder of the
Repairman Certificate for that airplane (e.g., the builder) can perform the
annual condition inspection, or a licensed A&P.

I bought my Fly Baby in the completed state, so I have to have an A&P do the
inspection every year. He inspects and points out what's wrong, and I do the
fixin'.

Not so much on topic for this group, but in general, how much time and
effort does it take to switch a plane between floats and wheels and
vice-versa? Is this something you can decide to do for the weekend, or is
it more of a "once per season when the lakes freeze" sort of thing?

Well, I've never tried it, but let's do a "thought experiment" on the process,
starting out with the switch from wheels to floats.

1. Get floats and hardware out of storage.
2. Count the struts, bolts, nuts, etc. to make sure you have everything needed
for the conversion.
3. Inspect the floats, struts, and hardware for airworthiness.
4. Jack or hoist the plane off the floor in level-flight attitude. Note that
the jacks used for stuff like tire changes probably aren't enough, since you've
got to get the plane high enough so that the whole float assembly will fit
underneath.
5. Disconnect the brake lines, applying a plug to the ends to keep the fluid
from running out all over the floor.
6. Unbolt the landing gear assemblies. Apply plug to brake systems to prevent
them from drying out. Find storage.
7. Place the floats on a dolly that hold them level and slide it under the
aircraft (remember, we're talking some pretty large pieces of hardware,
here...you'll need at *least* one helper).
8. Attach the first strut to the aircraft.
9. Position the float assembly so the remainder of the struts match their
mounting holes
10. Note that this assumes the floats were removed as an assembly, with most of
the struts in place. If you've got limited storage, you'd probably had to
disconnect ALL the struts to minimize the size. Hence, at this point, you'd be
attaching all the struts to both the aircraft and the floats.
11. Install the cross-bracing (struts or cables).
12. Check the rigging and adjust.
12. Tighten all attachment bolts.
13. Rig the water rudders.

I've probably left off a few steps, but it doesn't look like something you'll
want to do on Saturday with the knowledge that you'll need to switch back on
Monday.

Going the OTHER way (re-installing the wheels) involves stuff like bleeding the
brakes.

Best alternative might be a set of amphibious floats...I suspect there are
several vendors selling them for the Sportsman 2+2.

Ron Wanttaja

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:13:45 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

Hi, I'm new here (but not to other rec.aviation groups - I was there
before they split). I a 400 hour pilot with a life long dream of flying
floats, and starting to think that a kit plane might be the only solution.

I was recently reading about the Sportman 2+2 and their "two weeks to
taxi" program, and as well as being a plane that seems to fit my mission,
that program seems to address all my reservations about kit planes:
- the long build time
- the danger that your flying skills will atrophy if you spend all your
spare moments building a plane for years instead of flying
- the need for a building space
- the need to buy a bunch of tools you won't need after it's built
- the fear that you might do something wrong and not notice until it's too
late

I was hoping others here could comment on this program specifically, and
also some other questions about kit planes.

Is it true that a kit plane has limitations about what you can do with it?
What limitations? Also, is it true that as a builder, you're authorized
to act as your own A&P? Does that extend to IA as well?

Not so much on topic for this group, but in general, how much time and
effort does it take to switch a plane between floats and wheels and
vice-versa? Is this something you can decide to do for the weekend, or is
it more of a "once per season when the lakes freeze" sort of thing?

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"I kept the faith and I kept voting/Not for the iron fist but for the helping
hand/For theirs is a land with a wall around it/And mine is a faith in my
fellow man" --Billy Bragg

To change my murphy rebel from wheels to amphibious floats takes about
6 hours. changing from floats to wheels about 4 hours. My hangar is
permanently set up with chain falls pulleys and cables so that lifting
the plane is an easy one man job.

In a previous article, said:
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:13:45 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
Tomblin) wrote:

Hi, Paul...long time no see.

I'll say. Did I ever mention that I started my ascii airplane collection
back in 1988-89 (still at http://xcski.com/~ptomblin/planes.txt although I
haven't updated it in years and years) because you had an ascii Fly Baby
in your sig?

I bought my Fly Baby in the completed state, so I have to have an A&P do the
inspection every year. He inspects and points out what's wrong, and I do the
fixin'.

Oh, another question comes to mind - is it legal if I build the thing and
sell a 50% share to somebody else? Can they do maintenance work as well?
Or would it be better to find a partner first and build it together?

Best alternative might be a set of amphibious floats...I suspect there are
several vendors selling them for the Sportsman 2+2.

Yeah, there are, but amphib floats are so expensive I was just feeling out
whether straight floats would do for me. It sounds like probably not.

On a related note, do the US and Canada have water "airports of entry" for
float planes? I have a vision of having to land on the St. Lawrence and
taxi over the border and clear customs at a marina.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:56:14 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
Tomblin) wrote:

In a previous article, said:
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:13:45 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
Tomblin) wrote:

Hi, Paul...long time no see.

I'll say. Did I ever mention that I started my ascii airplane collection
back in 1988-89 (still at http://xcski.com/~ptomblin/planes.txt although I
haven't updated it in years and years) because you had an ascii Fly Baby
in your sig?

I'm honored. :-) Proportional spacing was the end of that type of fun, I guess.
People just got confused by the jumble of characters at the end of the
postings....

I bought my Fly Baby in the completed state, so I have to have an A&P do the
inspection every year. He inspects and points out what's wrong, and I do the
fixin'.

Oh, another question comes to mind - is it legal if I build the thing and
sell a 50% share to somebody else? Can they do maintenance work as well?
Or would it be better to find a partner first and build it together?

Certainly, I know several examples of people who co-owned homebuilts. You can
also buy the kit itself with someone else, and share the building process. The
famed "51% rule" only says that the majority of the work must be performed for
education or recreation; that 51% does NOT have to be performed by any single
individual. However, only *one* Repairman Certificate can be awarded per
aircraft, so you'd have to decide who'll get it.

Again, though, *anyone* can maintain the aircraft. So your partner could do any
maintenance himself. I've got a reprint of an EAA article on this subject at:

http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/MAINT.HTM

On a related note, do the US and Canada have water "airports of entry" for
float planes? I have a vision of having to land on the St. Lawrence and
taxi over the border and clear customs at a marina.

Lake Union in Seattle is an international airport (e.g., with customs service
available), mostly due to Kenmore Air's seaplane airline.


| "But I can't do a rounded windshield!"
_|_/
/(_)\
-------:==^==:-------
[[| o |]]
-----------------__________\_____/__________-----------------
_ / \ _
T T/_______\T T Ron Wanttaja
| | | |
""" """

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:56:14 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

In a previous article, said:
On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:13:45 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
Tomblin) wrote:

Hi, Paul...long time no see.

I'll say. Did I ever mention that I started my ascii airplane collection
back in 1988-89 (still at http://xcski.com/~ptomblin/planes.txt although I
haven't updated it in years and years) because you had an ascii Fly Baby
in your sig?

I bought my Fly Baby in the completed state, so I have to have an A&P do the
inspection every year. He inspects and points out what's wrong, and I do the
fixin'.

Oh, another question comes to mind - is it legal if I build the thing and
sell a 50% share to somebody else? Can they do maintenance work as well?
Or would it be better to find a partner first and build it together?

Best alternative might be a set of amphibious floats...I suspect there are
several vendors selling them for the Sportsman 2+2.

Yeah, there are, but amphib floats are so expensive I was just feeling out
whether straight floats would do for me. It sounds like probably not.

On a related note, do the US and Canada have water "airports of entry" for
float planes? I have a vision of having to land on the St. Lawrence and
taxi over the border and clear customs at a marina.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

Calmar and Montana both have 2200 amphibs for homebuilts at a more
reasonable price than certified floats.