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#1
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A-6 crash after launch?
I was watching a documentary called "Top Gun" on the Military Channel.
They had some footage of some cat launches gone wrong. In one an A-6 took off the waist catapult of a carrier and started losing altitude almost immediately. Then something really big fell off the plane, it started to roll, and the pilots ejected at very low altitude. Any idea what happened there? I remember hearing about some aircraft launch where the fuel in an external tank acted like a ram and caused some heavy damage, but I'm not sure if these are the same events. In another shot, a large prop plane, possibly an S-2F, took off the waist catapult of a smaller Essex class carrier and immediately slammed into a wave. Again, does anybody have any details? D |
#2
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A-6 crash after launch?
I saw the video of the plane punching through the wave while I was in
API. I got the impression that the video made the wave look more catastrophic than in actually was. Don't think it caused any damage to the aircraft just some super stunned pilots. |
#3
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A-6 crash after launch?
If I am remembering right the A-6 got a cold cat and the pilot jettisoned
the centerline droptank trying to gain alt. "spamno" wrote in message news:MPQdg.127$xO5.54@trnddc03... "DDAY" wrote in message . net... I was watching a documentary called "Top Gun" on the Military Channel. They had some footage of some cat launches gone wrong. In one an A-6 took off the waist catapult of a carrier and started losing altitude almost immediately. Then something really big fell off the plane, it started to roll, and the pilots ejected at very low altitude. Any idea what happened there? Without seeing it I can only speculate; cold cat? Wrong aircraft weight dialed in? FODed a motor? Control problem? As far as the "something really big fell off the plane" was that the canopy? Drop tanks? Turtleback? I remember hearing about some aircraft launch where the fuel in an external tank acted like a ram and caused some heavy damage, but I'm not sure if these are the same events. That's why drop tanks are either completely full or completely empty. They *should be* full on take off and the aircrew *always* checks fuel quantity to be sure. |
#4
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A-6 crash after launch?
"DDAY" wrote in message . net... I was watching a documentary called "Top Gun" on the Military Channel. They had some footage of some cat launches gone wrong. In one an A-6 took off the waist catapult of a carrier and started losing altitude almost immediately. Then something really big fell off the plane, it started to roll, and the pilots ejected at very low altitude. Probably engine failure on the stroke. Possibly wrong weight setting on the cat. The older catapults would use a given steam pressure to achieve a particular end-speed for a particular gross weight. These would malfunction on rare occasions. The newer cats use a rotary valve that allows full pressure (600psi IIRC) for a particular duration and are just about fool proof (unless its set for the wrong weight). A fully-loaded A-6 didn't have very good single-engine fly away capability. The "something" was probably all the underwing stores. Pilot pushed the emergency jettison and the pylons were cleaned off. Any idea what happened there? I remember hearing about some aircraft launch where the fuel in an external tank acted like a ram and caused some heavy damage, but I'm not sure if these are the same events. In another shot, a large prop plane, possibly an S-2F, took off the waist catapult of a smaller Essex class carrier and immediately slammed into a wave. Again, does anybody have any details? Pitching deck, poor cat shot timing, and heavy seas. The aircraft made it. The aircrew needed fresh skivvies. R / John |
#5
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A-6 crash after launch?
They had some footage of some cat launches gone wrong. In one an A-6
took off the waist catapult of a carrier and started losing altitude almost immediately. Then something really big fell off the plane, it started to roll, and the pilots ejected at very low altitude. Probably engine failure on the stroke. Possibly wrong weight setting on the cat. The older catapults would use a given steam pressure to achieve a particular end-speed for a particular gross weight. These would malfunction on rare occasions. The newer cats use a rotary valve that allows full pressure (600psi IIRC) for a particular duration and are just about fool proof (unless its set for the wrong weight). A fully-loaded A-6 didn't have very good single-engine fly away capability. The "something" was probably all the underwing stores. Pilot pushed the emergency jettison and the pylons were cleaned off. If it's the event I'm thinking of, I heard an interview from the pilot. I don't remember the cause of the problem, but it was either insufficient cat stroke, or more likely, an engine problem (because I don't remember him blaming the cat/crew). After the shot, the pilot noticed that they weren't going anywhere (not a good thing), and tried to hack it. Folks on deck were screaming to eject. The drop tanks were punched off late, then the B/N ejected, then the pilot ejected. The pilot hit the water at almost a 90 degree angle but made it. The B/N didn't. The pilot went on to transition to the F-14 after that cruise (one of the A-6s last). |
#6
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A-6 crash after launch?
"TV" wrote in message ... They had some footage of some cat launches gone wrong. In one an A-6 took off the waist catapult of a carrier and started losing altitude almost immediately. Then something really big fell off the plane, it started to roll, and the pilots ejected at very low altitude. Probably engine failure on the stroke. Possibly wrong weight setting on the cat. The older catapults would use a given steam pressure to achieve a particular end-speed for a particular gross weight. These would malfunction on rare occasions. The newer cats use a rotary valve that allows full pressure (600psi IIRC) for a particular duration and are just about fool proof (unless its set for the wrong weight). A fully-loaded A-6 didn't have very good single-engine fly away capability. The "something" was probably all the underwing stores. Pilot pushed the emergency jettison and the pylons were cleaned off. If it's the event I'm thinking of, I heard an interview from the pilot. I don't remember the cause of the problem, but it was either insufficient cat stroke, or more likely, an engine problem (because I don't remember him blaming the cat/crew). After the shot, the pilot noticed that they weren't going anywhere (not a good thing), and tried to hack it. Folks on deck were screaming to eject. The drop tanks were punched off late, then the B/N ejected, then the pilot ejected. The pilot hit the water at almost a 90 degree angle but made it. The B/N didn't. The pilot went on to transition to the F-14 after that cruise (one of the A-6s last). If it was one of the A-6s last cruises that would put it in the mid nineties time frame. Any idea what boat? |
#7
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A-6 crash after launch?
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In article , "TV" wrote: If it's the event I'm thinking of, I heard an interview from the pilot. I don't remember the cause of the problem, but it was either insufficient cat stroke, or more likely, an engine problem (because I don't remember him blaming the cat/crew). After the shot, the pilot noticed that they weren't going anywhere (not a good thing), and tried to hack it. Folks on deck were screaming to eject. The drop tanks were punched off late, then the B/N I'll have to rewatch it. I don't think it was in slow-motion, but the plane goes off the deck slowly and then just seems to hang there. It's clear that it's way below speed. Then, after an eternity, something long and thick falls off the plane, which must have been a drop tank. The plane then started a right bank and that's when they ejected, both hitting the water before their chutes could fully deploy. I got the sense from looking at it that the pilot waited too long, that he was trying to keep the plane in the air despite a severe lack of speed. But that's based upon my ignorant impression. I wasn't in the plane looking at the gauges, and so maybe he thought that he could recover from the situation and belatedly realized that he couldn't. It was scary to watch. D |
#8
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A-6 crash after launch?
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In article , "John Carrier" wrote: Probably engine failure on the stroke. Possibly wrong weight setting on the cat. The older catapults would use a given steam pressure to achieve a A fully-loaded A-6 didn't have very good single-engine fly away capability. The "something" was probably all the underwing stores. Pilot pushed the emergency jettison and the pylons were cleaned off. Yeah, I figured it was the stores, although I only saw one big thing falling from one side of the plane. The plane wasn't fully loaded, at least that much was evident. In fact, it looked clean, which is why the big thing falling off was so odd. D |
#9
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A-6 crash after launch?
There were several incidents such as this during the A-6's long career, but I cannot find any that meet the criteria of (a) pilot survived, B/N didn't, and (b) late during the A-6's service life.
Morgan & Morgan's excellent book, INTRUDER: THE OPERATIONAL HISTORY OF GRUMMAN'S A-6, has an appendix of all operational A-6 losses. (There's a separate appendix for combat losses.) In that appendix there is only one instance of a carrier launch loss where the pilot survived and the B/N was lost: BuNo 151825 / KA-6D, VA-75, 10/11/74, Mediterranean, off CV-60. Flaps/slats retracted on launch. On the other hand there are several carrier launch losses where the fatality accrued to the left side of the cockpit. Within this group, only one occurred late in the Intruder's operational career: BuNo 155708 / A-6E, VA-176, 01/19/91, Mediterranean, off CV-59. (No cause listed.) With some more information, I can likely narrow things down or identify the actual event. With that, some other intrepid soul can fathom the depths of the Naval Safety Center records for the cause. -- Mike Kanze "The real accomplishment of 'The Da Vinci Code' is that Dan Brown has proven that the theory of conspiracy theories is totally elastic, it has no limits." - Daniel Henninger, WALL STREET JOURNAL - 5/19/06 "spamno" wrote in message news:6o_dg.177$xO5.28@trnddc03... "TV" wrote in message ... They had some footage of some cat launches gone wrong. In one an A-6 took off the waist catapult of a carrier and started losing altitude almost immediately. Then something really big fell off the plane, it started to roll, and the pilots ejected at very low altitude. Probably engine failure on the stroke. Possibly wrong weight setting on the cat. The older catapults would use a given steam pressure to achieve a particular end-speed for a particular gross weight. These would malfunction on rare occasions. The newer cats use a rotary valve that allows full pressure (600psi IIRC) for a particular duration and are just about fool proof (unless its set for the wrong weight). A fully-loaded A-6 didn't have very good single-engine fly away capability. The "something" was probably all the underwing stores. Pilot pushed the emergency jettison and the pylons were cleaned off. If it's the event I'm thinking of, I heard an interview from the pilot. I don't remember the cause of the problem, but it was either insufficient cat stroke, or more likely, an engine problem (because I don't remember him blaming the cat/crew). After the shot, the pilot noticed that they weren't going anywhere (not a good thing), and tried to hack it. Folks on deck were screaming to eject. The drop tanks were punched off late, then the B/N ejected, then the pilot ejected. The pilot hit the water at almost a 90 degree angle but made it. The B/N didn't. The pilot went on to transition to the F-14 after that cruise (one of the A-6s last). If it was one of the A-6s last cruises that would put it in the mid nineties time frame. Any idea what boat? |
#10
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A-6 crash after launch? OBTW
One of the peculiarities of the A-6 was its lack of a command ejection
system. There was some kind of reverse (perverse) logic in the community that had sufficient following to keep it that way (IIRC) for the life of the aircraft. R / John |
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