Best Overall Motorglider available today?

Paul T wrote on 10/3/2020 12:56 AM:
Is there a rec.aviation.mortorglider for all these boys that don't fly
sailplanes???

You are asking about what we call "touring motorgliders". The best place to start
is the Touring Motorglider Association forums:

https://www.motorgliders.org

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Touring motorgliders seem to be simply airplanes with longer wings.

On 10/3/2020 7:07 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Paul T wrote on 10/3/2020 12:56 AM:
Is there a rec.aviation.mortorglider for all these boys that don't fly
sailplanes???

You are asking about what we call "touring motorgliders". The best
place to start is the Touring Motorglider Association forums:

https://www.motorgliders.org


--
Dan, 5J

On 10/3/20 7:07 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Paul T wrote on 10/3/2020 12:56 AM:
Is there a rec.aviation.mortorglider for all these boys that don't fly
sailplanes???

You are asking about what we call "touring motorgliders". The best place
to start is the Touring Motorglider Association forums:

https://www.motorgliders.org


I believe he was saying that motorgliders aren't really sailplanes and
would like discussions on such to move elsewhere.

Maybe if he doesn't want to read about motorgliders, he could avoid
clicking on threads mentioning motorgliders?

At 17:01 03 October 2020, kinsell wrote:
On 10/3/20 7:07 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Paul T wrote on 10/3/2020 12:56 AM:
Is there a rec.aviation.mortorglider for all these boys that don't fly
sailplanes???

You are asking about what we call "touring motorgliders". The best
place
to start is the Touring Motorglider Association forums:

https://www.motorgliders.org


I believe he was saying that motorgliders aren't really sailplanes and
would like discussions on such to move elsewhere.

Maybe if he doesn't want to read about motorgliders, he could avoid
clicking on threads mentioning motorgliders?


Such a cynic - but no, anything with an engine in it is not a sailplane -
its a
different game - maybe better, maybe worse, but definitely different - but

personally I'd have a JS2/5 if I win the lottery.

Paul T wrote on 10/3/2020 2:43 PM:
At 17:01 03 October 2020, kinsell wrote:
On 10/3/20 7:07 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Paul T wrote on 10/3/2020 12:56 AM:
Is there a rec.aviation.mortorglider for all these boys that don't fly
sailplanes???

You are asking about what we call "touring motorgliders". The best
place
to start is the Touring Motorglider Association forums:

https://www.motorgliders.org


I believe he was saying that motorgliders aren't really sailplanes and
would like discussions on such to move elsewhere.

Maybe if he doesn't want to read about motorgliders, he could avoid
clicking on threads mentioning motorgliders?


Such a cynic - but no, anything with an engine in it is not a sailplane -
its a
different game - maybe better, maybe worse, but definitely different - but

personally I'd have a JS2/5 if I win the lottery.

Equipment does change the game: 1-26 vs Nimbus 4 is a different game.

The area also changes the game: Appalachian ridges vs Argentina wave is a
different game.

The launch availability changes the game: Daily access to a tow vs weekend only is
a different game.

Retrieve ease changes the game: a very dedicated (or paid) crew vs the unassisted
pilot is a different game.

My point: The common factor is we are all flying sailplanes, and there are many
factors affecting the "game". To argue a Nimbus 4 is a sailplane and a Nimbus 4M
isn't ignores what happens between the start and finish of the soaring.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to em"l me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I thought the same thing...............before checking width between shoulders on JS2!

Paul T wrote on 10/3/2020 12:56 AM:
....................
personally I'd have a JS2/5 if I win the lottery.

The JS1 and ASH26 I used to fly were noticeably more roomy around the shoulders and upper arms than the V3M and I would be amazed if the JS2 wasn't similar. The Ventus Performance fuselage has a vertical side wall for a few inches below the cockpit rim whereas the JS gliders follow the Schleicher concept of a reinforcing inward curvature of the cockpit rim beneath which the shoulder and elbow-moving space is quite roomy. I wouldn't reject the JS2 on cockpit size alone without sitting in it first. Oscar Goudrian fits according to the picture on the JS FB page.

JS2 spec:
Cockpit shoulder width
525 mm

ASH31Mi spec:
Cockpit width
660 mm

Yes, there is a photo of Goudriaan in the cockpit: his position is completely lying down with shoulders under the rims. I don't think you could fly 10 hours in that position IMHO.

When talking about aerodynamic drag the fuselage frontal area is an important factor, especially at high speeds (when induced drag is less).

A pilot must take a decision: top performance or compromise & comfort ? Both is simply impossible.

(This was a factor when I had to choose between ASH31Mi and Ventus2CxM)

On Monday, 5 October 2020 at 15:38:53 UTC+1, Carlo Orsini wrote:
JS2 spec:
Cockpit shoulder width
525 mm

ASH31Mi spec:
Cockpit width
660 mm

Yes, there is a photo of Goudriaan in the cockpit: his position is completely lying down with shoulders under the rims. I don't think you could fly 10 hours in that position IMHO.

When talking about aerodynamic drag the fuselage frontal area is an important factor, especially at high speeds (when induced drag is less).

A pilot must take a decision: top performance or compromise & comfort ? Both is simply impossible.

(This was a factor when I had to choose between ASH31Mi and Ventus2CxM)

Those two dimensions for the JS2 and the ASH31 are clearly not be comparable - one internal cockpit rim and one external I guess. The 525mm shoulder width for the JS2 is exactly the same as the quoted figure for the JS1 (and JS3) and the JS1 cockpit roominess is fully equal to the ASH26/31 from which it was derived. I have 4 years in a JS1 followed by 2 in the ASH 26e and they are so similar that it would be hard to know which cockpit I was in with my eyes closed. Looking at the JS2 cockpit photographs it obvious that its structural cockpit rim design is the same as the 31, 26 and JS1. JS do not make small cockpits.