Best Overall Motorglider available today?

Dave, there was no good reason to do it. The E engine was running fine, had 45 hours on it, and it still running today in another glider. A number of 26E owners over the years have expressed interest in this conversion. We had the engine and were curious about AS claim that this was not a trivial endeavor. Also, I was going to need to replace the Technoflug prop at some point, and the Mi engine already had that prop. It turned into a bit more work than we (Rex and I) had imagined - perhaps AS was right - but the result is a nice upgrade. The alternative way to get an Mi engine is to spend the $1/4M dollar bill for a 31.

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 5:41:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 12:46:57 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
While the Mi engine is better, the E engine is certainly adequate
Thanks Jfitch for showing us your beautiful 26mi at the convention.
Can you remind us why you decided to do the conversion from original engine?

Thanks,
Best Regards, Dave

On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:00:01 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
Dave, there was no good reason to do it. The E engine was running fine, had 45 hours on it, and it still running today in another glider. A number of 26E owners over the years have expressed interest in this conversion. We had the engine and were curious about AS claim that this was not a trivial endeavor. Also, I was going to need to replace the Technoflug prop at some point, and the Mi engine already had that prop. It turned into a bit more work than we (Rex and I) had imagined - perhaps AS was right - but the result is a nice upgrade. The alternative way to get an Mi engine is to spend the $1/4M dollar bill for a 31.

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 5:41:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 12:46:57 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
While the Mi engine is better, the E engine is certainly adequate
Thanks Jfitch for showing us your beautiful 26mi at the convention.
Can you remind us why you decided to do the conversion from original engine?

Thanks,
Best Regards, Dave

I think if you factored in the cost of the engine and the cost of the labor you would be better off selling your 26e and buying a new 31Mi. You definitely can't get your money back when you sell your converted 26Mi (which really doesn't exist as it is not an AS model).

Tom

On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:33:33 AM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:00:01 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
Dave, there was no good reason to do it. The E engine was running fine, had 45 hours on it, and it still running today in another glider. A number of 26E owners over the years have expressed interest in this conversion. We had the engine and were curious about AS claim that this was not a trivial endeavor. Also, I was going to need to replace the Technoflug prop at some point, and the Mi engine already had that prop. It turned into a bit more work than we (Rex and I) had imagined - perhaps AS was right - but the result is a nice upgrade. The alternative way to get an Mi engine is to spend the $1/4M dollar bill for a 31.

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 5:41:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 12:46:57 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
While the Mi engine is better, the E engine is certainly adequate
Thanks Jfitch for showing us your beautiful 26mi at the convention.
Can you remind us why you decided to do the conversion from original engine?

Thanks,
Best Regards, Dave
I think if you factored in the cost of the engine and the cost of the labor you would be better off selling your 26e and buying a new 31Mi. You definitely can't get your money back when you sell your converted 26Mi (which really doesn't exist as it is not an AS model).

Tom
The cost of the parts wasn't that high and the labor was free. Certainly far less than the $100K or so difference. I considered a 31 but prefer the one piece wings, leaving the only advantage (for me) of the 31 the higher wing loading on rare occasions when I could be bothered with water. Nevertheless, it isn't wise to look too closely at the cost of soaring, it is phenomenally expensive at this level. Everyone makes their own decisions, and I made mine with full knowledge.

Regarding auxiliary motors, this prejudice will die away eventually. Sailboats with auxiliaries are now universal and are thought of as sailboats, but it took about 50 years to get there. With motorgliders currently outselling non-engined gliders by about 5:1, it may not take that long.

On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 6:58:32 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:33:33 AM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:00:01 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
Dave, there was no good reason to do it. The E engine was running fine, had 45 hours on it, and it still running today in another glider. A number of 26E owners over the years have expressed interest in this conversion. We had the engine and were curious about AS claim that this was not a trivial endeavor. Also, I was going to need to replace the Technoflug prop at some point, and the Mi engine already had that prop. It turned into a bit more work than we (Rex and I) had imagined - perhaps AS was right - but the result is a nice upgrade. The alternative way to get an Mi engine is to spend the $1/4M dollar bill for a 31.

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 5:41:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 12:46:57 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
While the Mi engine is better, the E engine is certainly adequate
Thanks Jfitch for showing us your beautiful 26mi at the convention.
Can you remind us why you decided to do the conversion from original engine?

Thanks,
Best Regards, Dave
I think if you factored in the cost of the engine and the cost of the labor you would be better off selling your 26e and buying a new 31Mi. You definitely can't get your money back when you sell your converted 26Mi (which really doesn't exist as it is not an AS model).

Tom
The cost of the parts wasn't that high and the labor was free. Certainly far less than the $100K or so difference. I considered a 31 but prefer the one piece wings, leaving the only advantage (for me) of the 31 the higher wing loading on rare occasions when I could be bothered with water. Nevertheless, it isn't wise to look too closely at the cost of soaring, it is phenomenally expensive at this level. Everyone makes their own decisions, and I made mine with full knowledge.

Regarding auxiliary motors, this prejudice will die away eventually. Sailboats with auxiliaries are now universal and are thought of as sailboats, but it took about 50 years to get there. With motorgliders currently outselling non-engined gliders by about 5:1, it may not take that long.

The telling difference for was when I did a 30nm glide at Ely in my 26e with an ASG29; I ended up 3,000ft below him! I was down below ridge height scratching and he easily connected with a thermal and was gone. The better glide of the 31 is really substantial as is the engine performance at high-density altitudes.

Valuing your labor at zero doesn't make sense as you can always work at your profession and pay someone else to do the work. If you make less than what it will cost in labor, then do it yourself, but set the labor cost at your deferred labor rate. Even worse, when it is time to sell potential buyers will consider it to be a 26e, not a 26Mi (which doesn't exist).

I've stopped worrying about the obscene cost of these toys a long time ago. If it bothered me, I could just play golf at zero additional cost (I have an annual membership at the course I play whether I fly or not).

Tom

On Sunday, October 4, 2020 at 8:04:18 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 6:58:32 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:33:33 AM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:00:01 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
Dave, there was no good reason to do it. The E engine was running fine, had 45 hours on it, and it still running today in another glider. A number of 26E owners over the years have expressed interest in this conversion. We had the engine and were curious about AS claim that this was not a trivial endeavor. Also, I was going to need to replace the Technoflug prop at some point, and the Mi engine already had that prop. It turned into a bit more work than we (Rex and I) had imagined - perhaps AS was right - but the result is a nice upgrade. The alternative way to get an Mi engine is to spend the $1/4M dollar bill for a 31.

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 5:41:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 12:46:57 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
While the Mi engine is better, the E engine is certainly adequate
Thanks Jfitch for showing us your beautiful 26mi at the convention.
Can you remind us why you decided to do the conversion from original engine?

Thanks,
Best Regards, Dave
I think if you factored in the cost of the engine and the cost of the labor you would be better off selling your 26e and buying a new 31Mi. You definitely can't get your money back when you sell your converted 26Mi (which really doesn't exist as it is not an AS model).

Tom
The cost of the parts wasn't that high and the labor was free. Certainly far less than the $100K or so difference. I considered a 31 but prefer the one piece wings, leaving the only advantage (for me) of the 31 the higher wing loading on rare occasions when I could be bothered with water. Nevertheless, it isn't wise to look too closely at the cost of soaring, it is phenomenally expensive at this level. Everyone makes their own decisions, and I made mine with full knowledge.

Regarding auxiliary motors, this prejudice will die away eventually. Sailboats with auxiliaries are now universal and are thought of as sailboats, but it took about 50 years to get there. With motorgliders currently outselling non-engined gliders by about 5:1, it may not take that long.
The telling difference for was when I did a 30nm glide at Ely in my 26e with an ASG29; I ended up 3,000ft below him! I was down below ridge height scratching and he easily connected with a thermal and was gone. The better glide of the 31 is really substantial as is the engine performance at high-density altitudes.

Valuing your labor at zero doesn't make sense as you can always work at your profession and pay someone else to do the work. If you make less than what it will cost in labor, then do it yourself, but set the labor cost at your deferred labor rate. Even worse, when it is time to sell potential buyers will consider it to be a 26e, not a 26Mi (which doesn't exist).

I've stopped worrying about the obscene cost of these toys a long time ago. If it bothered me, I could just play golf at zero additional cost (I have an annual membership at the course I play whether I fly or not).

Tom
Tom,
Energy line is not big highway.
Your friend read a line a bit better.
We all trying the best, but we sometimes miss.
Its not a glider !
Ryszard

On Sunday, October 4, 2020 at 8:07:16 PM UTC-7, RW wrote:
On Sunday, October 4, 2020 at 8:04:18 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 6:58:32 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:33:33 AM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:00:01 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
Dave, there was no good reason to do it. The E engine was running fine, had 45 hours on it, and it still running today in another glider. A number of 26E owners over the years have expressed interest in this conversion. We had the engine and were curious about AS claim that this was not a trivial endeavor. Also, I was going to need to replace the Technoflug prop at some point, and the Mi engine already had that prop. It turned into a bit more work than we (Rex and I) had imagined - perhaps AS was right - but the result is a nice upgrade. The alternative way to get an Mi engine is to spend the $1/4M dollar bill for a 31.

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 5:41:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 12:46:57 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
While the Mi engine is better, the E engine is certainly adequate
Thanks Jfitch for showing us your beautiful 26mi at the convention.
Can you remind us why you decided to do the conversion from original engine?

Thanks,
Best Regards, Dave
I think if you factored in the cost of the engine and the cost of the labor you would be better off selling your 26e and buying a new 31Mi. You definitely can't get your money back when you sell your converted 26Mi (which really doesn't exist as it is not an AS model).

Tom
The cost of the parts wasn't that high and the labor was free. Certainly far less than the $100K or so difference. I considered a 31 but prefer the one piece wings, leaving the only advantage (for me) of the 31 the higher wing loading on rare occasions when I could be bothered with water. Nevertheless, it isn't wise to look too closely at the cost of soaring, it is phenomenally expensive at this level. Everyone makes their own decisions, and I made mine with full knowledge.

Regarding auxiliary motors, this prejudice will die away eventually. Sailboats with auxiliaries are now universal and are thought of as sailboats, but it took about 50 years to get there. With motorgliders currently outselling non-engined gliders by about 5:1, it may not take that long.
The telling difference for was when I did a 30nm glide at Ely in my 26e with an ASG29; I ended up 3,000ft below him! I was down below ridge height scratching and he easily connected with a thermal and was gone. The better glide of the 31 is really substantial as is the engine performance at high-density altitudes.

Valuing your labor at zero doesn't make sense as you can always work at your profession and pay someone else to do the work. If you make less than what it will cost in labor, then do it yourself, but set the labor cost at your deferred labor rate. Even worse, when it is time to sell potential buyers will consider it to be a 26e, not a 26Mi (which doesn't exist).

I've stopped worrying about the obscene cost of these toys a long time ago. If it bothered me, I could just play golf at zero additional cost (I have an annual membership at the course I play whether I fly or not).

Tom
Tom,
Energy line is not big highway.
Your friend read a line a bit better.
We all trying the best, but we sometimes miss.
Its not a glider !
Ryszard

Ryszard, you might consider rephrasing your comment as it just doesn't make any sense.

Tom

On Monday, October 5, 2020 at 11:41:41 AM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Sunday, October 4, 2020 at 8:07:16 PM UTC-7, RW wrote:
On Sunday, October 4, 2020 at 8:04:18 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 6:58:32 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:33:33 AM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:00:01 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
Dave, there was no good reason to do it. The E engine was running fine, had 45 hours on it, and it still running today in another glider. A number of 26E owners over the years have expressed interest in this conversion. We had the engine and were curious about AS claim that this was not a trivial endeavor. Also, I was going to need to replace the Technoflug prop at some point, and the Mi engine already had that prop. It turned into a bit more work than we (Rex and I) had imagined - perhaps AS was right - but the result is a nice upgrade. The alternative way to get an Mi engine is to spend the $1/4M dollar bill for a 31.

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 5:41:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 12:46:57 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
While the Mi engine is better, the E engine is certainly adequate
Thanks Jfitch for showing us your beautiful 26mi at the convention.
Can you remind us why you decided to do the conversion from original engine?

Thanks,
Best Regards, Dave
I think if you factored in the cost of the engine and the cost of the labor you would be better off selling your 26e and buying a new 31Mi. You definitely can't get your money back when you sell your converted 26Mi (which really doesn't exist as it is not an AS model).

Tom
The cost of the parts wasn't that high and the labor was free. Certainly far less than the $100K or so difference. I considered a 31 but prefer the one piece wings, leaving the only advantage (for me) of the 31 the higher wing loading on rare occasions when I could be bothered with water. Nevertheless, it isn't wise to look too closely at the cost of soaring, it is phenomenally expensive at this level. Everyone makes their own decisions, and I made mine with full knowledge.

Regarding auxiliary motors, this prejudice will die away eventually.. Sailboats with auxiliaries are now universal and are thought of as sailboats, but it took about 50 years to get there. With motorgliders currently outselling non-engined gliders by about 5:1, it may not take that long.
The telling difference for was when I did a 30nm glide at Ely in my 26e with an ASG29; I ended up 3,000ft below him! I was down below ridge height scratching and he easily connected with a thermal and was gone. The better glide of the 31 is really substantial as is the engine performance at high-density altitudes.

Valuing your labor at zero doesn't make sense as you can always work at your profession and pay someone else to do the work. If you make less than what it will cost in labor, then do it yourself, but set the labor cost at your deferred labor rate. Even worse, when it is time to sell potential buyers will consider it to be a 26e, not a 26Mi (which doesn't exist).

I've stopped worrying about the obscene cost of these toys a long time ago. If it bothered me, I could just play golf at zero additional cost (I have an annual membership at the course I play whether I fly or not).

Tom
Tom,
Energy line is not big highway.
Your friend read a line a bit better.
We all trying the best, but we sometimes miss.
Its not a glider !
Ryszard

Ryszard, you might consider rephrasing your comment as it just doesn't make any sense.

Tom
Tom, I believe, best energy line is narrow, like British roads can handle one car.
Flying side by side 200 ft apart will not bring same results.
Ryszard

2G wrote on 10/4/2020 5:04 PM:
ling non-engined gliders by about 5:1, it may not take that long.

The telling difference for was when I did a 30nm glide at Ely in my 26e with an ASG29; I ended up 3,000ft below him! I was down below ridge height scratching and he easily connected with a thermal and was gone. The better glide of the 31 is really substantial as is the engine performance at high-density altitudes.

If he was getting 50:1, that suggests you were only getting 27:1. What speed were
you flying? What were the respective wing loadings? Did you follow closely behind?
Did you have a lot of bugs?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Sunday, October 4, 2020 at 8:44:11 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
2G wrote on 10/4/2020 5:04 PM:
ling non-engined gliders by about 5:1, it may not take that long.

The telling difference for was when I did a 30nm glide at Ely in my 26e with an ASG29; I ended up 3,000ft below him! I was down below ridge height scratching and he easily connected with a thermal and was gone. The better glide of the 31 is really substantial as is the engine performance at high-density altitudes.

If he was getting 50:1, that suggests you were only getting 27:1. What speed were
you flying? What were the respective wing loadings? Did you follow closely behind?
Did you have a lot of bugs?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
If he forgot to put his motor away, that'd about do it.

The glide on a 29 and a 26 at the same wing loading is nearly identical, proven by numerous side-by-side 30 mi + glides. As is a 31 with 18m tips. Now if you are comparing a 29 or 31 at 11 lb/ft to a 26 at 9, all running 85 knots, yeah there will be a difference. If you like to load up, this is the 26 weak spot, wing loading limited by European paperwork.

Your concern for my money is touching, but don't worry about it - I'm not.

On Sunday, October 4, 2020 at 5:04:18 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 6:58:32 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:33:33 AM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, October 3, 2020 at 9:00:01 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
Dave, there was no good reason to do it. The E engine was running fine, had 45 hours on it, and it still running today in another glider. A number of 26E owners over the years have expressed interest in this conversion. We had the engine and were curious about AS claim that this was not a trivial endeavor. Also, I was going to need to replace the Technoflug prop at some point, and the Mi engine already had that prop. It turned into a bit more work than we (Rex and I) had imagined - perhaps AS was right - but the result is a nice upgrade. The alternative way to get an Mi engine is to spend the $1/4M dollar bill for a 31.

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 5:41:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 12:46:57 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
While the Mi engine is better, the E engine is certainly adequate
Thanks Jfitch for showing us your beautiful 26mi at the convention.
Can you remind us why you decided to do the conversion from original engine?

Thanks,
Best Regards, Dave
I think if you factored in the cost of the engine and the cost of the labor you would be better off selling your 26e and buying a new 31Mi. You definitely can't get your money back when you sell your converted 26Mi (which really doesn't exist as it is not an AS model).

Tom
The cost of the parts wasn't that high and the labor was free. Certainly far less than the $100K or so difference. I considered a 31 but prefer the one piece wings, leaving the only advantage (for me) of the 31 the higher wing loading on rare occasions when I could be bothered with water. Nevertheless, it isn't wise to look too closely at the cost of soaring, it is phenomenally expensive at this level. Everyone makes their own decisions, and I made mine with full knowledge.

Regarding auxiliary motors, this prejudice will die away eventually. Sailboats with auxiliaries are now universal and are thought of as sailboats, but it took about 50 years to get there. With motorgliders currently outselling non-engined gliders by about 5:1, it may not take that long.
The telling difference for was when I did a 30nm glide at Ely in my 26e with an ASG29; I ended up 3,000ft below him! I was down below ridge height scratching and he easily connected with a thermal and was gone. The better glide of the 31 is really substantial as is the engine performance at high-density altitudes.

Valuing your labor at zero doesn't make sense as you can always work at your profession and pay someone else to do the work. If you make less than what it will cost in labor, then do it yourself, but set the labor cost at your deferred labor rate. Even worse, when it is time to sell potential buyers will consider it to be a 26e, not a 26Mi (which doesn't exist).

I've stopped worrying about the obscene cost of these toys a long time ago. If it bothered me, I could just play golf at zero additional cost (I have an annual membership at the course I play whether I fly or not).

Tom