Best Overall Motorglider available today?

I don’t think anyone mentioned the AS34ME. While not available yet, it sounds like it has good potential. The web site claims total of 9000+ feet of potential climb, or 2000 self launch and 75 miles range using it as a sustainer, which is pretty much double the FES capability.
I am not clear on the charging process. Since the batteries are in the wing, it sounds like you can’t recharge between flights without taking the wings apart?
Will be interesting to hear thoughts if this is a good candidate for best overall motorglider?

Ramy

On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 8:47:08 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
I don’t think anyone mentioned the AS34ME. While not available yet...

Always an issue ;-)

I am not clear on the charging process. Since the batteries are in the
wing, it sounds like you can’t recharge between flights without taking
the wings apart?

Planes with batteries in wing typically have a connector in fuselage
to permit easy charging whilst assembled (mine does).

Do ask however if charging system is set up for 110V as commonly available
in USA - reduced voltage means double current for same charge rate,
and unless all wiring and connectors are sized appropriately for USA
you get to double the charge time to keep the current within design limits.
Ask me how I know ;-)
Usually not a big problem if its "overnight charge" anyway.

If you have to buy a high-power 110V to 240V converter that's a nuisance!

See ya, Dave

Charging from the fuselage will make it impossible to charge overnight under most circumstances unless you tie down near a hangar or use your own generator. Perhaps using a generator is a reasonable practical method?

Ramy

On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 9:57:23 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
Charging from the fuselage will make it impossible to charge overnight
under most circumstances unless you tie down near a hangar or use your
own generator. Perhaps using a generator is a reasonable practical method?

For 13 years I've mostly found a place near power at contests,
and carry a portable generator for sites where that is not possible.
Not a big deal. Especially at sites where they're nice enough to
reserve a tie-down near an adequate power outlet (special thanks to Rich
and Jayne). At Minden I've sometimes been able to rent a hangar
with power during a contest, sometimes tied down in front of office.
And so forth. Like I said, not a big deal.

Bigger problem is keeping the machine working ;-(

Ramy wrote on 10/11/2020 6:57 PM:
Charging from the fuselage will make it impossible to charge overnight under most circumstances unless you tie down near a hangar or use your own generator. Perhaps using a generator is a reasonable practical method?

Ramy

I've thought about this, since I expect to have that problem next year with the GP15. Here's
what I've considered:

- At home, I may have access to the power from friend's hangar and a place to tie down down
beside it, instead of the ramp tiedowns

- Typically, only a partial charge would be required, taking an hour or two, so power at a
tiedown is usually not needed; eg, Parowan and Ely have RV and hangar outlets that can be used
to charge in the evening after landing, then the glider moved to the tiedown after dinner. Or,
in the morning before flying

- My motorhome has a generator that could be used to charge the glider at the tiedown when
there is no 120VAC available on the field. It can even charge the glider in the trailer while
traveling

- The 15M GP15 should be easy to derig each night, instead of covering and tying down, and
parked near power for the charger; alternatively, once it's derigged, the batteries can be slid
out of the wings and taken to the RV/FBO/motel/etc for charging.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 6:57:23 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Charging from the fuselage will make it impossible to charge overnight under most circumstances unless you tie down near a hangar or use your own generator. Perhaps using a generator is a reasonable practical method?

Ramy
I heard it takes roughly 10 gallons of fuel to recharge an empty Antares with a Honda generator. This ran all night long with a mid night refueling. They encourage every one in RV park to not run their generator and night because of the noise. If I was camping at an airfield and had to listen to a generator, I would be pretty unhappy especially if the owner was sleeping in another location.

Anybody thinking of owning an electric glider should understand the challenges. Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use.. Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

I own DG 800b and fully admit this plane is not for everyone. I have been racing cars and 2 strokes all my life and found that experience has been vital to keep ahead of problems, and thanks to the forums for sharing. In the USA we are very challenged to find qualified people to work and maintain these unique machines. Every time a read about an owner taking his ship back to the factory for an annual in Europe, it is a stark reminder that even there, finding good qualified help is not easy.

Buzz

It's not only the electric glider that's the problem, it is that many
(most)
gliding Clubs do not have a reliable available power supply. Even with
conventional pure gliders it's not uncommon to see a maze of extension
leads snaking across the (wet) grass.
The Clubs could perhaps improve and adapt.

BG wrote on 10/12/2020 10:47 AM:
On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 6:57:23 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Charging from the fuselage will make it impossible to charge overnight under most circumstances unless you tie down near a hangar or use your own generator. Perhaps using a generator is a reasonable practical method?

Ramy
I heard it takes roughly 10 gallons of fuel to recharge an empty Antares with a Honda generator. This ran all night long with a mid night refueling. They encourage every one in RV park to not run their generator and night because of the noise. If I was camping at an airfield and had to listen to a generator, I would be pretty unhappy especially if the owner was sleeping in another location.

Anybody thinking of owning an electric glider should understand the challenges. Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use.. Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

Already there are several models of electric gliders with batteries in the wings, with more
coming in the future, because that allows the fuselage to hold a more powerful motor with a
larger propeller. The good news is they do not need to cause you to lose any sleep, because
they can be recharged without running a noisy generator all night, for several reasons:

- very quiet portable generators are readily available now
- the charging can be done for about 4 hours after landing, and 4 hours in the morning, giving
you a 10 pm - 7 am quiet time. That 8 hours of charging at 1.5kw, is 12 kWh, more than enough
to charge the GP15 I've ordered (8.2kWh battery), the AS34 (8.6kWh), and even the Antares (~10kWh)
- And especially because they will typically return with over half their capacity unused,
reducing the charge time to less than 4 hours.

And, if all else fails: earplugs, a white noise generator, maybe even a motel :^(

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 1:14:01 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
BG wrote on 10/12/2020 10:47 AM:
On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 6:57:23 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Charging from the fuselage will make it impossible to charge overnight under most circumstances unless you tie down near a hangar or use your own generator. Perhaps using a generator is a reasonable practical method?

Ramy
I heard it takes roughly 10 gallons of fuel to recharge an empty Antares with a Honda generator. This ran all night long with a mid night refueling. They encourage every one in RV park to not run their generator and night because of the noise. If I was camping at an airfield and had to listen to a generator, I would be pretty unhappy especially if the owner was sleeping in another location.

Anybody thinking of owning an electric glider should understand the challenges. Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use.. Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

Already there are several models of electric gliders with batteries in the wings, with more
coming in the future, because that allows the fuselage to hold a more powerful motor with a
larger propeller. The good news is they do not need to cause you to lose any sleep, because
they can be recharged without running a noisy generator all night, for several reasons:

- very quiet portable generators are readily available now

eco mode(quiet mode) on a Honda 2000(about 50lbs of generator) coughs and sputters around 500W. So for any significant charging session you'll need the noisier max rpm mode on the typical medium sized generator. So running 7pm to 10pm and in the morning is a good plan.

Not at all sure I'd consider having to lug heavy batteries out of the
glider,
putting them in a car, transporting them and then recharging them in
your RV/Gite/hotel/hangar/caravan/whatever could be viewed as a
universally good solution.
Then reversing the process next morning?

Simply plugging a single mains power lead into the Antares type 'battery
in wing' is a bit simpler, no? (The Antares has a built in charger system).

Plus if the whole shooting match bursts into flames it's not in your
RV/car/hotel/Gite......

Some European gliding clubs even now do not allow electric gliders to be
charged in their club hangars: fire risk, insurance problems?

Interesting times.