Best Overall Motorglider available today?

On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 6:57:23 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Charging from the fuselage will make it impossible to charge overnight under most circumstances unless you tie down near a hangar or use your own generator. Perhaps using a generator is a reasonable practical method?

Ramy
I heard it takes roughly 10 gallons of fuel to recharge an empty Antares with a Honda generator. This ran all night long with a mid night refueling. They encourage every one in RV park to not run their generator and night because of the noise. If I was camping at an airfield and had to listen to a generator, I would be pretty unhappy especially if the owner was sleeping in another location.

Anybody thinking of owning an electric glider should understand the challenges. Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use.. Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

I own DG 800b and fully admit this plane is not for everyone. I have been racing cars and 2 strokes all my life and found that experience has been vital to keep ahead of problems, and thanks to the forums for sharing. In the USA we are very challenged to find qualified people to work and maintain these unique machines. Every time a read about an owner taking his ship back to the factory for an annual in Europe, it is a stark reminder that even there, finding good qualified help is not easy.

Buzz

It's not only the electric glider that's the problem, it is that many
(most)
gliding Clubs do not have a reliable available power supply. Even with
conventional pure gliders it's not uncommon to see a maze of extension
leads snaking across the (wet) grass.
The Clubs could perhaps improve and adapt.

BG wrote on 10/12/2020 10:47 AM:
On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 6:57:23 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Charging from the fuselage will make it impossible to charge overnight under most circumstances unless you tie down near a hangar or use your own generator. Perhaps using a generator is a reasonable practical method?

Ramy
I heard it takes roughly 10 gallons of fuel to recharge an empty Antares with a Honda generator. This ran all night long with a mid night refueling. They encourage every one in RV park to not run their generator and night because of the noise. If I was camping at an airfield and had to listen to a generator, I would be pretty unhappy especially if the owner was sleeping in another location.

Anybody thinking of owning an electric glider should understand the challenges. Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use.. Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

Already there are several models of electric gliders with batteries in the wings, with more
coming in the future, because that allows the fuselage to hold a more powerful motor with a
larger propeller. The good news is they do not need to cause you to lose any sleep, because
they can be recharged without running a noisy generator all night, for several reasons:

- very quiet portable generators are readily available now
- the charging can be done for about 4 hours after landing, and 4 hours in the morning, giving
you a 10 pm - 7 am quiet time. That 8 hours of charging at 1.5kw, is 12 kWh, more than enough
to charge the GP15 I've ordered (8.2kWh battery), the AS34 (8.6kWh), and even the Antares (~10kWh)
- And especially because they will typically return with over half their capacity unused,
reducing the charge time to less than 4 hours.

And, if all else fails: earplugs, a white noise generator, maybe even a motel :^(

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 1:14:01 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
BG wrote on 10/12/2020 10:47 AM:
On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 6:57:23 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Charging from the fuselage will make it impossible to charge overnight under most circumstances unless you tie down near a hangar or use your own generator. Perhaps using a generator is a reasonable practical method?

Ramy
I heard it takes roughly 10 gallons of fuel to recharge an empty Antares with a Honda generator. This ran all night long with a mid night refueling. They encourage every one in RV park to not run their generator and night because of the noise. If I was camping at an airfield and had to listen to a generator, I would be pretty unhappy especially if the owner was sleeping in another location.

Anybody thinking of owning an electric glider should understand the challenges. Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use.. Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

Already there are several models of electric gliders with batteries in the wings, with more
coming in the future, because that allows the fuselage to hold a more powerful motor with a
larger propeller. The good news is they do not need to cause you to lose any sleep, because
they can be recharged without running a noisy generator all night, for several reasons:

- very quiet portable generators are readily available now

eco mode(quiet mode) on a Honda 2000(about 50lbs of generator) coughs and sputters around 500W. So for any significant charging session you'll need the noisier max rpm mode on the typical medium sized generator. So running 7pm to 10pm and in the morning is a good plan.

Not at all sure I'd consider having to lug heavy batteries out of the
glider,
putting them in a car, transporting them and then recharging them in
your RV/Gite/hotel/hangar/caravan/whatever could be viewed as a
universally good solution.
Then reversing the process next morning?

Simply plugging a single mains power lead into the Antares type 'battery
in wing' is a bit simpler, no? (The Antares has a built in charger system).

Plus if the whole shooting match bursts into flames it's not in your
RV/car/hotel/Gite......

Some European gliding clubs even now do not allow electric gliders to be
charged in their club hangars: fire risk, insurance problems?

Interesting times.

Dave Walsh wrote on 10/12/2020 2:26 PM:
Not at all sure I'd consider having to lug heavy batteries out of the
glider,
putting them in a car, transporting them and then recharging them in
your RV/Gite/hotel/hangar/caravan/whatever could be viewed as a
universally good solution.
Then reversing the process next morning?

Simply plugging a single mains power lead into the Antares type 'battery
in wing' is a bit simpler, no? (The Antares has a built in charger system).

Of course, that is the most desirable solution. The other solutions, including removing the
wing batteries, are for the times there isn't mains power near the glider parking area - the
usual situation I encounter. The only airfield I recall having convenient 120VAC sockets near
the aircraft was in Canada, so pilots could plug in their engine heaters during the winter.

For most pilots with wing batteries, I think a quiet, 2kW portable generator will be the
easiest answer to independent charging of their glider. They are priced in the $400-$1000
range, so cheap enough.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 4:14:01 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
...Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use..
Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

Seriously? Removable batteries are heavy and susceptible to damage (as proven).

If you think there is such a thing as a quiet generator you are either indulging in wishful thinking at the expense of your neighbors or you need your hearing evaluated, or both. Maybe it doesn't matter at some uninhabitable hellhole of a soaring site, but it would sure kill the ambiance at most of the (beautiful, quiet, wonderfully suitable for tent camping) sites I frequent.

T8

Tango Eight wrote on 10/12/2020 5:12 PM:
If you think there is such a thing as a quiet generator you are either indulging in wishful thinking at the expense of your neighbors or you need your hearing evaluated, or both. Maybe it doesn't matter at some uninhabitable hellhole of a soaring site, but it would sure kill the ambiance at most of the (beautiful, quiet, wonderfully suitable for tent camping) sites I frequent.

Have you listened to a Honda EU2200i? It's rated at 57dba at full output, which is variously
described as normal conversation or a refrigerator running. If you are sleeping right next to
the glider being charged, it might seem loud (haven't tried it), but a 100' away, probably not.
But, I don't support running them at night, but between 7 am and 10 pm, or similar, so there is
a quiet time at night. Based on my flying, where I typically use the ASH26E engine for just the
launch, a similar electric glider would only need an hour of charging, so easily done in the
morning while preparing for the day's flight.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

It's not about "loud", Eric, it's about "peace and quiet".

On a still morning at New Castle, anyone with decent hearing will hear it at a 1/2 mile and it will not enhance the experience. At someplace like Hobbs or Ephrata, maybe one doesn't care as much.

T8

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 12:00:02 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Tango Eight wrote on 10/12/2020 5:12 PM:
If you think there is such a thing as a quiet generator you are either indulging in wishful thinking at the expense of your neighbors or you need your hearing evaluated, or both. Maybe it doesn't matter at some uninhabitable hellhole of a soaring site, but it would sure kill the ambiance at most of the (beautiful, quiet, wonderfully suitable for tent camping) sites I frequent.

Have you listened to a Honda EU2200i? It's rated at 57dba at full output, which is variously
described as normal conversation or a refrigerator running. If you are sleeping right next to
the glider being charged, it might seem loud (haven't tried it), but a 100' away, probably not.
But, I don't support running them at night, but between 7 am and 10 pm, or similar, so there is
a quiet time at night. Based on my flying, where I typically use the ASH26E engine for just the
launch, a similar electric glider would only need an hour of charging, so easily done in the
morning while preparing for the day's flight.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1