Best Overall Motorglider available today?

On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 4:14:01 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
...Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use..
Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

Seriously? Removable batteries are heavy and susceptible to damage (as proven).

If you think there is such a thing as a quiet generator you are either indulging in wishful thinking at the expense of your neighbors or you need your hearing evaluated, or both. Maybe it doesn't matter at some uninhabitable hellhole of a soaring site, but it would sure kill the ambiance at most of the (beautiful, quiet, wonderfully suitable for tent camping) sites I frequent.

T8

Tango Eight wrote on 10/12/2020 5:12 PM:
If you think there is such a thing as a quiet generator you are either indulging in wishful thinking at the expense of your neighbors or you need your hearing evaluated, or both. Maybe it doesn't matter at some uninhabitable hellhole of a soaring site, but it would sure kill the ambiance at most of the (beautiful, quiet, wonderfully suitable for tent camping) sites I frequent.

Have you listened to a Honda EU2200i? It's rated at 57dba at full output, which is variously
described as normal conversation or a refrigerator running. If you are sleeping right next to
the glider being charged, it might seem loud (haven't tried it), but a 100' away, probably not.
But, I don't support running them at night, but between 7 am and 10 pm, or similar, so there is
a quiet time at night. Based on my flying, where I typically use the ASH26E engine for just the
launch, a similar electric glider would only need an hour of charging, so easily done in the
morning while preparing for the day's flight.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

It's not about "loud", Eric, it's about "peace and quiet".

On a still morning at New Castle, anyone with decent hearing will hear it at a 1/2 mile and it will not enhance the experience. At someplace like Hobbs or Ephrata, maybe one doesn't care as much.

T8

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 12:00:02 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Tango Eight wrote on 10/12/2020 5:12 PM:
If you think there is such a thing as a quiet generator you are either indulging in wishful thinking at the expense of your neighbors or you need your hearing evaluated, or both. Maybe it doesn't matter at some uninhabitable hellhole of a soaring site, but it would sure kill the ambiance at most of the (beautiful, quiet, wonderfully suitable for tent camping) sites I frequent.

Have you listened to a Honda EU2200i? It's rated at 57dba at full output, which is variously
described as normal conversation or a refrigerator running. If you are sleeping right next to
the glider being charged, it might seem loud (haven't tried it), but a 100' away, probably not.
But, I don't support running them at night, but between 7 am and 10 pm, or similar, so there is
a quiet time at night. Based on my flying, where I typically use the ASH26E engine for just the
launch, a similar electric glider would only need an hour of charging, so easily done in the
morning while preparing for the day's flight.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Have you listened to one? If it ran after 8 am, would it still be offensive?

You are right that it would not bother people at Ephrata, Hobbs, Parowan, Ely, or Minden, and
most of the places I fly. It's been a long time since I've been to Newcastle, so tell me: is
power available for several gliders to tie down where they could recharge from hangar outlets?
Could they be parked at one end of the tiedowns, far enough away that 57 dba generators would
not annoy people after 7 or 8 am?

Eric

Tango Eight wrote on 10/13/2020 5:14 AM:
It's not about "loud", Eric, it's about "peace and quiet".

On a still morning at New Castle, anyone with decent hearing will hear it at a 1/2 mile and it will not enhance the experience. At someplace like Hobbs or Ephrata, maybe one doesn't care as much.

T8

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 12:00:02 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Tango Eight wrote on 10/12/2020 5:12 PM:
If you think there is such a thing as a quiet generator you are either indulging in wishful thinking at the expense of your neighbors or you need your hearing evaluated, or both. Maybe it doesn't matter at some uninhabitable hellhole of a soaring site, but it would sure kill the ambiance at most of the (beautiful, quiet, wonderfully suitable for tent camping) sites I frequent.

Have you listened to a Honda EU2200i? It's rated at 57dba at full output, which is variously
described as normal conversation or a refrigerator running. If you are sleeping right next to
the glider being charged, it might seem loud (haven't tried it), but a 100' away, probably not.
But, I don't support running them at night, but between 7 am and 10 pm, or similar, so there is
a quiet time at night. Based on my flying, where I typically use the ASH26E engine for just the
launch, a similar electric glider would only need an hour of charging, so easily done in the
morning while preparing for the day's flight.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Honestly no, I have no experience with that specific model.

57 dBa, while not loud, is very clearly audible, and in still, stable air (especially still, humid, stable air) sound carries a very long way.

If electric gliders (and electric tow vehicles) become the norm, then I'm sure infrastructure will be built to accommodate.

I'm not a New Castle member, just their biggest fan. There's power all over the airport, but since it wasn't put there with electric vehicles in mind, it wouldn't take too many before limits of power and accessibility were reached.

T8

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 9:18:20 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Have you listened to one? If it ran after 8 am, would it still be offensive?

You are right that it would not bother people at Ephrata, Hobbs, Parowan, Ely, or Minden, and
most of the places I fly. It's been a long time since I've been to Newcastle, so tell me: is
power available for several gliders to tie down where they could recharge from hangar outlets?
Could they be parked at one end of the tiedowns, far enough away that 57 dba generators would
not annoy people after 7 or 8 am?

Eric
Tango Eight wrote on 10/13/2020 5:14 AM:
It's not about "loud", Eric, it's about "peace and quiet".

On a still morning at New Castle, anyone with decent hearing will hear it at a 1/2 mile and it will not enhance the experience. At someplace like Hobbs or Ephrata, maybe one doesn't care as much.

T8

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 12:00:02 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Tango Eight wrote on 10/12/2020 5:12 PM:
If you think there is such a thing as a quiet generator you are either indulging in wishful thinking at the expense of your neighbors or you need your hearing evaluated, or both. Maybe it doesn't matter at some uninhabitable hellhole of a soaring site, but it would sure kill the ambiance at most of the (beautiful, quiet, wonderfully suitable for tent camping) sites I frequent.

Have you listened to a Honda EU2200i? It's rated at 57dba at full output, which is variously
described as normal conversation or a refrigerator running. If you are sleeping right next to
the glider being charged, it might seem loud (haven't tried it), but a 100' away, probably not.
But, I don't support running them at night, but between 7 am and 10 pm, or similar, so there is
a quiet time at night. Based on my flying, where I typically use the ASH26E engine for just the
launch, a similar electric glider would only need an hour of charging, so easily done in the
morning while preparing for the day's flight.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On 10/12/20 4:26 PM, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 4:14:01 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
...Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use..
Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

Seriously? Removable batteries are heavy and susceptible to damage (as proven).



That quote came from Buzz, not Eric. Eric is all-in with batteries less
conveniently removed, in the wings. He'll be flying his Jeta next year.
Maybe just on Condor :-)

I remember an Electro Taurus that showed up at Parowan a few years ago,
solar cells covering his trailer. Supposedly the cells would charge a
staging battery in the trailer during the day, then they would
cross-charge the ship batteries at night.

Pilot told me in reality it took three days of sunshine to get adequate
charge, and was wondering about the availability of a 220 volt outlet.

Also, during shipping the weight of the solar cells had caused the
trailer top to sag, and damaged his canopy.

Sometimes things that sound great on paper don't work out as planned in
reality. Speaking of such, why has no one recommended the Sunseeker for
Nick?

-Dave

Ya Know what would be / Is the ultimate Great Basin ship IMHO?
The EB 29
Kinda big at a 96' wingspan but the 68/1 LD would be nice.
I was in Ely several years ago when there were two there, one flown by a gent I think named John Bally? and his buddy. I checked those planes out, very well finished. Beautiful.
Those guys said they were very nice to fly.
Actually Bally had the 2 seat EB 28 and took my brother Mike XC in it.
I think Binder has been a leader in suppling other manufactures with complete ICE systems for a long time.
At Moriarity NM this spring Keith Essex said this plane was on his radar as his next ship, after he wore out his JS3.
Any guess's on what these go for all decked out with a metal Cobra?
Nick
T

On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 8:52:22 PM UTC-4, Nicholas Kennedy wrote:
Ya Know what would be / Is the ultimate Great Basin ship IMHO?
The EB 29
Kinda big at a 96' wingspan but the 68/1 LD would be nice.
I was in Ely several years ago when there were two there, one flown by a gent I think named John Bally? and his buddy. I checked those planes out, very well finished. Beautiful.
Those guys said they were very nice to fly.
Actually Bally had the 2 seat EB 28 and took my brother Mike XC in it.
I think Binder has been a leader in suppling other manufactures with complete ICE systems for a long time.
At Moriarity NM this spring Keith Essex said this plane was on his radar as his next ship, after he wore out his JS3.
Any guess's on what these go for all decked out with a metal Cobra?
Nick
T

from a search of ras: "On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 9:23:07 AM UTC-6, krasw wrote:
- show quoted text -
PS the EB28 Edition and the EB29 are about $300,000 with trailer and
the usual equipment - neither have automatic control hookups - both gliders
are incredibly good climbers even when very heavy - the handling is superb
and they are a pleasure to fly - "

I searched on "eb29 glider price"

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 3:42:43 AM UTC+2, Dan Daly wrote:
On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 8:52:22 PM UTC-4, Nicholas Kennedy wrote:
Ya Know what would be / Is the ultimate Great Basin ship IMHO?
The EB 29
Kinda big at a 96' wingspan but the 68/1 LD would be nice.
I was in Ely several years ago when there were two there, one flown by a gent I think named John Bally? and his buddy. I checked those planes out, very well finished. Beautiful.
Those guys said they were very nice to fly.
Actually Bally had the 2 seat EB 28 and took my brother Mike XC in it.
I think Binder has been a leader in suppling other manufactures with complete ICE systems for a long time.
At Moriarity NM this spring Keith Essex said this plane was on his radar as his next ship, after he wore out his JS3.
Any guess's on what these go for all decked out with a metal Cobra?
Nick
T
from a search of ras: "On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 9:23:07 AM UTC-6, krasw wrote:
- show quoted text -
PS the EB28 Edition and the EB29 are about $300,000 with trailer and
the usual equipment - neither have automatic control hookups - both gliders
are incredibly good climbers even when very heavy - the handling is superb
and they are a pleasure to fly - "

I searched on "eb29 glider price"

Last I heard the price was nearer 400k all in.
They do make an EB29E though with an electric engine and allegedly 3000m of climb. It can't take the new R wings though.
The best electric glider I ever flew was the Arcus E. I wish the concept had been developed further. Some newer/higher density batteries, and a few more evolutions of the Lange control systems would be the ultimate system in my opinion.