Cold Starts

Dave Stadt wrote:
:The
: cylinders themselves have choke (they're slightly smaller bore at the
: top), with the
: thought being they'll expand to be straight when they heat up during
: normal operation.
: Those two things are the primary reasons.... lack of oil and scuffing of
: cylinders.

: Doesn't play. The pistons are aluminium and the bores are steel. In cold
: weather the aluminium pistons shrink more than the steel cylinders and
: clearance actually increases. The rings are steel and follow the cylinders.

True... except the piston is warmed by the first few seconds/minutes of
combustion much quicker than the steel cylinders. It's not the starting so much as
the dissimilar warmup. If the cylinders are pre-warmed, the temperature differential
to be transitioned through is lower. Granted it's engine preheater propaganda,
I believe there's some truth to the research in http://www.tanair.com/article6.html.

If you get high-time from your engine without preheat, then good for you.
Nobody said that cold-starts are the only cause of engine wear, and I'm sure that for
particular engines it's worse than others. As always, YMMV.

-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote in message
...
Dave Stadt wrote:
:The
: cylinders themselves have choke (they're slightly smaller bore at the
: top), with the
: thought being they'll expand to be straight when they heat up during
: normal operation.
: Those two things are the primary reasons.... lack of oil and scuffing
of
: cylinders.

: Doesn't play. The pistons are aluminium and the bores are steel. In
cold
: weather the aluminium pistons shrink more than the steel cylinders and
: clearance actually increases. The rings are steel and follow the
cylinders.

True... except the piston is warmed by the first few seconds/minutes of
combustion much quicker than the steel cylinders. It's not the starting
so much as
the dissimilar warmup. If the cylinders are pre-warmed, the temperature
differential
to be transitioned through is lower.

Percentage wise the difference is minimal.

Granted it's engine preheater propaganda,
I believe there's some truth to the research in
http://www.tanair.com/article6.html.

If you get high-time from your engine without preheat, then good for you.
Nobody said that cold-starts are the only cause of engine wear, and I'm
sure that for
particular engines it's worse than others. As always, YMMV.

I do preheat but to be honest I don't know why. Nothing in this discussion
has convinced me that anybody knows why or what harm, if any, is caused by
not preheating. Only thing I know for sure is preheating makes it much
easier to start the engine.


-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

Dave Stadt wrote:

I do preheat but to be honest I don't know why.

Continental will tell you that failure to preheat one of their engines when the
temperature is below 20 degrees F may result in a snapped valve stem. Good enough?

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Dave Stadt wrote:

I do preheat but to be honest I don't know why.

Continental will tell you that failure to preheat one of their engines
when the
temperature is below 20 degrees F may result in a snapped valve stem. Good
enough?

I have never sen that written about the O-200.


George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way
that
you look forward to the trip.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
m...

Percentage wise the difference is minimal.

Granted it's engine preheater propaganda,
I believe there's some truth to the research in

http://www.tanair.com/article6.html.

or

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/index.html

I'm leaning towards a Reiff System, probably the Turbo XP system. It just
seems a better design especially with a
JPI EDM-700 installation.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:12:13 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:


"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
om...

Percentage wise the difference is minimal.

Granted it's engine preheater propaganda,
I believe there's some truth to the research in

http://www.tanair.com/article6.html.

or

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/index.html

I'm leaning towards a Reiff System, probably the Turbo XP system. It just
seems a better design especially with a
JPI EDM-700 installation.


I've had a TANIS system for about fifteen years, along with an Insight GEM.
The "cylinder" heating is taken care of by heated intake bolts, so no
interference with anything else. The oil heating is via a heated oil
screen (the upper one).

I have no experience with the Reiff system.

With a cover, my cylinders are usually around 100°F and the oil around 80°F
with OAT's down to -5°F or so.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:12:13 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:


"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
om...

Percentage wise the difference is minimal.

Granted it's engine preheater propaganda,
I believe there's some truth to the research in

http://www.tanair.com/article6.html.

or

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/index.html

I'm leaning towards a Reiff System, probably the Turbo XP system. It just
seems a better design especially with a
JPI EDM-700 installation.


I've had a TANIS system for about fifteen years, along with an Insight
GEM.
The "cylinder" heating is taken care of by heated intake bolts, so no
interference with anything else. The oil heating is via a heated oil
screen (the upper one).

Isn't the GEM a single cylinder monitor? The EDM-700 has six and I think
that precludes using the Tanis.


I have no experience with the Reiff system.

With a cover, my cylinders are usually around 100°F and the oil around
80°F
with OAT's down to -5°F or so.

Gets the cabin heater going more quickly, too, I surmise.

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:08:17 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:




Isn't the GEM a single cylinder monitor?

No.

The EDM-700 has six and I think that precludes using the Tanis.

No it does not. There are several options available, including dual use
probes as well as the heated bolts that I have. It may be more expensive,
however.


I have no experience with the Reiff system.

With a cover, my cylinders are usually around 100°F and the oil around
80°F
with OAT's down to -5°F or so.

Gets the cabin heater going more quickly, too, I surmise.

If I had a decent cabin heater, it might ng.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:08:17 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:




Isn't the GEM a single cylinder monitor?

No.

The EDM-700 has six and I think that precludes using the Tanis.

No it does not. There are several options available, including dual use
probes as well as the heated bolts that I have. It may be more expensive,
however.

It is, apparently. It also must be "customized" to the particular engine.

Right now it looks like $2300-$3000 or so for the Tanis system, or $675 for
the Reiff system for the bird I'm looking at.


I have no experience with the Reiff system.

With a cover, my cylinders are usually around 100°F and the oil around
80°F
with OAT's down to -5°F or so.

Gets the cabin heater going more quickly, too, I surmise.

If I had a decent cabin heater, it might ng.

Bummer, dude!!

"Heated intake bolts"???

Please tell me more about that!

The Tanis heaters that I've seen use the CHT probe hole, thus precluding
the use of these holes for CHT guages (or dual adapters).

Rich

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:


I've had a TANIS system for about fifteen years, along with an Insight GEM.
The "cylinder" heating is taken care of by heated intake bolts, so no
interference with anything else. The oil heating is via a heated oil
screen (the upper one).


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)