In-Flight Engine Failure

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message ...
Well, it happended. I have owned the plane (Piper Turbo Arrow III) for
3 months and the engine failed during climb out on Tuesday. Altitude
was 4400 feet. Luckily, the engine did not entirely quit and I made it
to an airport within 10 miles. TBO was 1000 hours away. Dissapointing!
When we cut the oil filter, it was full of fairly large aluminum and
steel bits of metal. Arg!

What is wrong with this engine? The symptoms surely don't relate to
P leads or magneto wires.

Why not run a compression check on it? Take off the valve cover on
any suspicious cylinders. What's in there?

Take off the cylinder, if you figure out
that it's only one. See what's going on. What's the cam look like?

With the cylinder off, you can look inside the case for clues.

There are a lot of failures where you could do a repair and be back
in business--unless something got loose and whanged around inside.
The oil filter probably kept stuff out of the bearings.

It wouldn't be much of an investment in time to investigate. Plus,
we all want to know what busted!! Heck, you can even do this yourself.

It's a hard running engine.

Bill H

Why not run a compression check on it? Take off the valve cover on
any suspicious cylinders. What's in there?

Well, I was traveling on business when the failure happened, I could
only spend the next morning with it before I had to be flown home
(commercially, arg!). Also the shop where I was had several fires
happening simultaneously and were short handed, so they were unwilling
to investigate beyond pull the spark plugs and cutting the oil filter.



Take off the cylinder, if you figure out
that it's only one. See what's going on. What's the cam look like?

Well, I am sending my A&P out there on Monday and I hope to learn these
details from him. I will report back. My skill level is not at the
point I could have easily done these things myself. Sorry to tease you
with scant description and not be able to provide the details.


With the cylinder off, you can look inside the case for clues.

There are a lot of failures where you could do a repair and be back
in business--unless something got loose and whanged around inside.
The oil filter probably kept stuff out of the bearings.

That would be nice. My A&P suspects that the bearings are likely
fouled, but we will find out.

It wouldn't be much of an investment in time to investigate. Plus,
we all want to know what busted!! Heck, you can even do this yourself.

Would it were so. Perhaps in a few years


It's a hard running engine.

Bill H

If it were me, and knowing that the oil pressure dropped off to near zero, plus all the metal, I would not
opt for anything less than a complete overhaul. Even if the obvious damage is isolated to one cylinder, you
don't know what damage the low oil pressure and all that metal did elsewhere. It would really suck to spend
a bunch of cash on a fix only to have it happen again. Besides, right now, the cost of an overhaul is
relatively low compared to the prices over the last few years. If there were no metal, and the oil pressure
hadn't dropped, then maybe, but not under those circumstances.

Bill Hale wrote:


There are a lot of failures where you could do a repair and be back
in business--unless something got loose and whanged around inside.
The oil filter probably kept stuff out of the bearings.

It wouldn't be much of an investment in time to investigate. Plus,
we all want to know what busted!! Heck, you can even do this yourself.

It's a hard running engine.

Bill H

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

(Bill Hale) wrote in message . com...
"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message ...
Well, it happended. I have owned the plane (Piper Turbo Arrow III) for
3 months and the engine failed during climb out on Tuesday. Altitude
was 4400 feet. Luckily, the engine did not entirely quit and I made it
to an airport within 10 miles. TBO was 1000 hours away. Dissapointing!
When we cut the oil filter, it was full of fairly large aluminum and
steel bits of metal. Arg!

What is wrong with this engine? The symptoms surely don't relate to
P leads or magneto wires.

Why not run a compression check on it? Take off the valve cover on
any suspicious cylinders. What's in there?

Take off the cylinder, if you figure out
that it's only one. See what's going on. What's the cam look like?

With the cylinder off, you can look inside the case for clues.

There are a lot of failures where you could do a repair and be back
in business--unless something got loose and whanged around inside.
The oil filter probably kept stuff out of the bearings.

Sure, it kept the stuff out of the bearings. But the oil pump
is upstream of the filter, and all that metal garbage went through it
and chewed it up. "Fixing up" the engine is spending money on an
engine that will fail again very shortly, if it generates any oil
pressure at all. Nothing less than complete teardown is necessary
here.

Dan

Sure, it kept the stuff out of the bearings. But the oil pump
is upstream of the filter, and all that metal garbage went through it
and chewed it up. "Fixing up" the engine is spending money on an
engine that will fail again very shortly, if it generates any oil
pressure at all. Nothing less than complete teardown is necessary
here.


Yes, seems reasonable, painful as that conclusion is.
Price tag: $21K (plus labor). Gulp.

In article ,
"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:

Sure, it kept the stuff out of the bearings. But the oil pump
is upstream of the filter, and all that metal garbage went through it
and chewed it up. "Fixing up" the engine is spending money on an
engine that will fail again very shortly, if it generates any oil
pressure at all. Nothing less than complete teardown is necessary
here.


Yes, seems reasonable, painful as that conclusion is.
Price tag: $21K (plus labor). Gulp.

I can only offer my own experience. My club had an Archer which showed
metal in the oil filter. The engine had about 1300 SMOH, and this was
the third run on the engine. We tried pulling cylinders and opening the
oil pump trying to find the problem and ended up just throwing a lot of
good money after bad. In the end, we racked up a lot of shop bills and
still had to get a new engine.

IHMO, the aviation gods have smiled upon you. They made the engine last
long enough to get you safely on the ground so you could write that $21k
check. The alternative could have been much worse.

IHMO, the aviation gods have smiled upon you. They made the engine last
long enough to get you safely on the ground so you could write that $21k
check. The alternative could have been much worse.

I definitely agree.

Ouch. I paid 20K and change for a Penn Yann O-540 rebuild to new limits
with everything new except the case and crank last summer. Yours is a 4
banger, right? I guess the turbo adds a bunch to it?

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:

Yes, seems reasonable, painful as that conclusion is.
Price tag: $21K (plus labor). Gulp.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

6 cylinders.

Ray Andraka wrote:

Ouch. I paid 20K and change for a Penn Yann O-540 rebuild to new limits
with everything new except the case and crank last summer. Yours is a 4
banger, right? I guess the turbo adds a bunch to it?

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:


Yes, seems reasonable, painful as that conclusion is.
Price tag: $21K (plus labor). Gulp.


--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759