Weight & Balance Question

I dont know what the cause was, but yesterday, a Bonanza took off from North Las
Vegas airport, 4 adults and 2 children on board. It was'nt a V tail bonanza so
I am not sure of the model, but witness said the plane had trouble taking off
and climbing, somewhere after he started his turn right after take off, he nosed
in, all onboard dead.

this is what the news has been reporting about for the last 2 days, again, not
sure if it was overloaded since I dont know anything about bonanzas, but its not
worth the risk in my opinion.


Harry Gordon wrote:

I have a question that I know the legal answer for but am looking for some
alternative suggestions.

Tomorrow, I want to take my daughter and son-in-law on a flight in a C172M.
We will be flying to an airport almost 50 NM from our departure point. The
problem is this: with a full fuel load, we will be 89 pounds over the max
(2300 lbs). The CG is no problem. The only issue is the weight. I don't want
to leave one of them behind, and I certainly don't want to leave myself
behind :-))).

I am hoping that the plane wasn't refilled after it's last flight but I
won't know until I go to the airport to get the plane. Should it be full
and I don't have the needed 15 gals of fuel dumped, should I be concerned
about being 90 lbs over?

Please be nice in your answers. I feel like an idiot even asking because I
am concerned and if it wasn't for the fact they are visiting us for
Christmas, I would take one at a time on two separate trips!!! And at the
same time, I'm not in a hurry to get us hurt (or worse) just in the name of
having fun.

Thanks.

Harry

Jeff Jeff@turboarrow3 wrote:

I dont know what the cause was, but yesterday,
a Bonanza took off from North Las Vegas airport,
4 adults and 2 children on board. [snip]
... again, not sure if it was overloaded since I dont
know anything about bonanzas, but its not worth
the risk in my opinion.

I don't know if it was overloaded or what the cause was either, but I have a
friend who lives near there and said there were severe thunderstorms and winds
near the airport at the time of the crash.

My plane is based out at the north vegas airport, yes we had alot of clouds during
the day, the rains and high winds didnt really start untill around evening here in
the SW part of town where I live. A witness said the wind on the ground was calm
at the time of the accident, but you know how it can be, 100 ft off the ground it
may have been stronger.

During the afternoon, I would have flown, but only on an IFR flight plan due to
the low clouds and rain that you could see out to the west.. According to the news
today, they didnt know his destination or much about them because a flight plan
hadnt been filed.

Shirley wrote:

Jeff Jeff@turboarrow3 wrote:

I dont know what the cause was, but yesterday,
a Bonanza took off from North Las Vegas airport,
4 adults and 2 children on board. [snip]
... again, not sure if it was overloaded since I dont
know anything about bonanzas, but its not worth
the risk in my opinion.

I don't know if it was overloaded or what the cause was either, but I have a
friend who lives near there and said there were severe thunderstorms and winds
near the airport at the time of the crash.

Really? I've never heard of a severe thunderstorm in Las Vegas in December.
Does your friend know what the definition of a severe thunderstorm is?

Mike
MU-2


"Shirley" wrote in message
...
Jeff Jeff@turboarrow3 wrote:

I dont know what the cause was, but yesterday,
a Bonanza took off from North Las Vegas airport,
4 adults and 2 children on board. [snip]
... again, not sure if it was overloaded since I dont
know anything about bonanzas, but its not worth
the risk in my opinion.

I don't know if it was overloaded or what the cause was either, but I have
a
friend who lives near there and said there were severe thunderstorms and
winds
near the airport at the time of the crash.

It was pretty nasty weather towards the evening and late into the night. I was
at the airport today talking to the airport manager, he said winds were clocked
at 60 mph at one point for about an hour, He said he thought a couple of C-152's
were going to fly away in that wind, that they were "kite'ing around". Even Air
Vegas stopped flying out to the canyon.
I didnt see the light show, but the next day the news said we had a good
lightining show that night. It was nasty stuff, came in from california.
The tropicana casino had their parking garage flood and the fire dept had to
evacuate people from cars inside the garage (again on the news).

But the guy crashed near the Fiesta Casino, just inside the fence.

Mike Rapoport wrote:

Really? I've never heard of a severe thunderstorm in Las Vegas in December.
Does your friend know what the definition of a severe thunderstorm is?

Mike
MU-2

"Shirley" wrote in message
...
Jeff Jeff@turboarrow3 wrote:

I dont know what the cause was, but yesterday,
a Bonanza took off from North Las Vegas airport,
4 adults and 2 children on board. [snip]
... again, not sure if it was overloaded since I dont
know anything about bonanzas, but its not worth
the risk in my opinion.

I don't know if it was overloaded or what the cause was either, but I have
a
friend who lives near there and said there were severe thunderstorms and
winds
near the airport at the time of the crash.

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
It was pretty nasty weather towards the evening and late into the night. I
was
at the airport today talking to the airport manager, he said winds were
clocked
at 60 mph at one point for about an hour, He said he thought a couple of
C-152's
were going to fly away in that wind, that they were "kite'ing around".
Even Air
Vegas stopped flying out to the canyon.
I didnt see the light show, but the next day the news said we had a good
lightining show that night. It was nasty stuff, came in from california.
The tropicana casino had their parking garage flood and the fire dept had
to
evacuate people from cars inside the garage (again on the news).

But the guy crashed near the Fiesta Casino, just inside the fence.

Mike Rapoport wrote:

Really? I've never heard of a severe thunderstorm in Las Vegas in
December.
Does your friend know what the definition of a severe thunderstorm is?

Mike
MU-2

I guess his friends definition of a severe thunderstorm is what Jeff
described.

It will be interesting to see the NTSB report on the weather at the time of
the accident. A severe thunderstorm is defined as surface winds of 50kts or
greater, hail 3/4" or larger, or a tornado, so 60mph winds certainly qualify
if they were being produced by a thunderstorm. I am a little surprised that
if the pilot took off in 60mph winds with a huge thunderstorm nearby that
nobody noted that fact.

Mike
MU-2


"Jeff" wrote in message
...
It was pretty nasty weather towards the evening and late into the night. I
was
at the airport today talking to the airport manager, he said winds were
clocked
at 60 mph at one point for about an hour, He said he thought a couple of
C-152's
were going to fly away in that wind, that they were "kite'ing around".
Even Air
Vegas stopped flying out to the canyon.
I didnt see the light show, but the next day the news said we had a good
lightining show that night. It was nasty stuff, came in from california.
The tropicana casino had their parking garage flood and the fire dept had
to
evacuate people from cars inside the garage (again on the news).

But the guy crashed near the Fiesta Casino, just inside the fence.

Mike Rapoport wrote:

Really? I've never heard of a severe thunderstorm in Las Vegas in
December.
Does your friend know what the definition of a severe thunderstorm is?

Mike
MU-2

"Shirley" wrote in message
...
Jeff Jeff@turboarrow3 wrote:

I dont know what the cause was, but yesterday,
a Bonanza took off from North Las Vegas airport,
4 adults and 2 children on board. [snip]
... again, not sure if it was overloaded since I dont
know anything about bonanzas, but its not worth
the risk in my opinion.

I don't know if it was overloaded or what the cause was either, but I
have
a
friend who lives near there and said there were severe thunderstorms
and
winds
near the airport at the time of the crash.

On my side of town the winds were not a problem untill after 4pm, it was not a
bad day at all up till then, in the evening is when it got nasty. From what the
news said, the guy took off around noon, it was decent weather on the ground at
that time, the clouds were really moving accross the sky so I am assuming the
winds aloft were howling but on the ground it wasnt bad at all.

But I was at north vegas airport today at Rons Aircraft service making a work
order for my plane, Ron, the owner of the shop, said the guy who died was a
customer of his, he used to fly a c-172 and recently upgraded to a Bonanza A36
TC and that the guy had about 20 hours or so in it. He said he is betting the
plane was over loaded, 6 people (4 adults 2 children) luggage and full fuel.
I will be curious as to the outcome of the investigation also.

Mike Rapoport wrote:

It will be interesting to see the NTSB report on the weather at the time of
the accident. A severe thunderstorm is defined as surface winds of 50kts or
greater, hail 3/4" or larger, or a tornado, so 60mph winds certainly qualify
if they were being produced by a thunderstorm. I am a little surprised that
if the pilot took off in 60mph winds with a huge thunderstorm nearby that
nobody noted that fact.

Mike
MU-2

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
It was pretty nasty weather towards the evening and late into the night. I
was
at the airport today talking to the airport manager, he said winds were
clocked
at 60 mph at one point for about an hour, He said he thought a couple of
C-152's
were going to fly away in that wind, that they were "kite'ing around".
Even Air
Vegas stopped flying out to the canyon.
I didnt see the light show, but the next day the news said we had a good
lightining show that night. It was nasty stuff, came in from california.
The tropicana casino had their parking garage flood and the fire dept had
to
evacuate people from cars inside the garage (again on the news).

But the guy crashed near the Fiesta Casino, just inside the fence.

Mike Rapoport wrote:

Really? I've never heard of a severe thunderstorm in Las Vegas in
December.
Does your friend know what the definition of a severe thunderstorm is?

Mike
MU-2

"Shirley" wrote in message
...
Jeff Jeff@turboarrow3 wrote:

I dont know what the cause was, but yesterday,
a Bonanza took off from North Las Vegas airport,
4 adults and 2 children on board. [snip]
... again, not sure if it was overloaded since I dont
know anything about bonanzas, but its not worth
the risk in my opinion.

I don't know if it was overloaded or what the cause was either, but I
have
a
friend who lives near there and said there were severe thunderstorms
and
winds
near the airport at the time of the crash.

Doesn't a Bonanza get really ugly when loaded outside of the CG limits?

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
I dont know what the cause was, but yesterday, a Bonanza took off from
North Las
Vegas airport, 4 adults and 2 children on board. It was'nt a V tail
bonanza so
I am not sure of the model, but witness said the plane had trouble taking
off
and climbing, somewhere after he started his turn right after take off, he
nosed
in, all onboard dead.

this is what the news has been reporting about for the last 2 days, again,
not
sure if it was overloaded since I dont know anything about bonanzas, but
its not
worth the risk in my opinion.


Harry Gordon wrote:

I have a question that I know the legal answer for but am looking for
some
alternative suggestions.

Tomorrow, I want to take my daughter and son-in-law on a flight in a
C172M.
We will be flying to an airport almost 50 NM from our departure point.
The
problem is this: with a full fuel load, we will be 89 pounds over the
max
(2300 lbs). The CG is no problem. The only issue is the weight. I don't
want
to leave one of them behind, and I certainly don't want to leave myself
behind :-))).

I am hoping that the plane wasn't refilled after it's last flight but I
won't know until I go to the airport to get the plane. Should it be
full
and I don't have the needed 15 gals of fuel dumped, should I be
concerned
about being 90 lbs over?

Please be nice in your answers. I feel like an idiot even asking because
I
am concerned and if it wasn't for the fact they are visiting us for
Christmas, I would take one at a time on two separate trips!!! And at
the
same time, I'm not in a hurry to get us hurt (or worse) just in the name
of
having fun.

Thanks.

Harry