things to carry

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 21:45:26 -0700, Brian Burger
wrote:

Related to the 'what survival equipment do you carry' questions:

How many people here have any sort of First Aid/CPR training, or have
considered getting some?

If you've had training, are you legally & practically current in it? A CPR
ticket is legally valid for three years - practical currency, as always,
is another matter!

I did a Red Cross Standard First Aid & CPR 'C' course in November 2003;
I've skimmed through my textbook & class-notes a few times since, most
recently when I burnt my ankle with v. hot tea!

There's a St. John's Ambulance Wilderness First Aid course here in town
this fall that I'm seriously considering signing up for, too. Outside of
accidents in the hanger, pilots could well face a wilderness first aid
situation after a forced landing, where 'make the victim comfortable then
call 911' just isn't an option.

Compared to the costs of actually flying, these are inexpensive courses;
the Red Cross Standard First Aid was $80 Cdn (~$60 USD); the Wilderness
one is $180 Cdn (~$140 USD).

So, what First Aid training do people have?

Brian.

dont go overboard on the training most of it is quite simple.

1. if you think you are going to prang you have the wrong attitude to
flying and maintenance. your certified engine has no reason not to
make 2000 hours trouble free if the maintenance is sound. no reason at
all. prevention is far better than experience when it comes to
accidents.

2. first aid is quite simple for 99% of cases.

if a person is on their way out of life firstly their breathing stops
or their airway gets obstructed. 300 seconds later (roughly) their
heart runs out of oxygen and stops.

the heart never stops while they are breathing.

the priority for first aid is to keep the airway clear and
unobstructed.
if some one is out of it, roll them on their side, gently move the
head back and pull their jaw up to keep the trachea open.
make sure they havent swallowed their tongue.
they will be quite comfortable in that position for a few hours.

all of the rest of the mickey mouse training is really devoted to half
of the remaining 1% of situations and can be looked at in that light
quite competently.

3. gentle pressure to the area will stop most bleeding

4. it helps the thinking considerably if you dont panic.

there you go. that's the crux of a 2 day $120 dollar first aid course.
just as an aid to getting the priorities right, in a year working in a
busy hospital with really frail, injured and sick people I've never
needed to give first aid ever. in your flying you'll be dealing with
healthy people.

Stealth Pilot

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:12:32 +0800, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

there you go. that's the crux of a 2 day $120 dollar first aid course

Except that one is likely to remember the course material, whereas an
email is in one eye and out the other. (Except for me: I have only one
usable eye.)

I think everyone should do an EMT course, though mine was so long ago
that evidently the name has changed to First Responder. I don't think
it cost very much either. It lasted a whole lot longer, something like
three months, one night a week. Very valuable.

My daughter the sailor takes these wilderness medicine courses and
finds them useful. It is the closest thing to what a sailor
encounters. I should think a pilot is in much the same boat (as it
were). The problem with EMT training is that it assume the doctor or
hospital is only half an hour away, and this is not the situation for
a boat at sea or a plane in the woods.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

In article ,
Cub Driver wrote:

I think everyone should do an EMT course, though mine was so long ago
that evidently the name has changed to First Responder. I don't think
it cost very much either. It lasted a whole lot longer, something like
three months, one night a week. Very valuable.

From what I've seen, they're different. EMT courses are designed for
people who want EMT jobs, so they assume that you'll have the equipment
on the truck/ambulance, and they get into topics like stabilizing the
patient for transport. I haven't seen a syllabus for the Red Cross FR
course, but I think it's a more general advanced first aid course. The
target audience is broader--police, others who may be first on a scene.

If anyone has taken the Red Cross FR course and could compare it to the
other first aid courses, I'd like to know more about it.

- Nathan

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Stealth Pilot wrote:

dont go overboard on the training most of it is quite simple.

1. if you think you are going to prang you have the wrong attitude to
flying and maintenance. your certified engine has no reason not to
make 2000 hours trouble free if the maintenance is sound. no reason at
all. prevention is far better than experience when it comes to
accidents.

Yes, but "The odds said this shouldn't have happened." makes a pretty
lousy epitaph, I think. We train for engine-failures & forced landings in
PPL training, but by your logic, it's a waste of time.

After all, the vast majority of pilots are going to go an entire flying
lifetime w/o making a forced landing, so why train for it? Sorry, but your
reasoning doesn't hold water, either wrt first aid or forced landing
training...

4. it helps the thinking considerably if you dont panic.

This should be Rule #1, not #4!

snip
in your flying you'll be dealing with
healthy people.

Sure, but even healthy people trip over things, walk into props or
doorframes, spill hot coffee etc etc. Basic first aid training, even if
all it does is reenforce your rule #4 (Don't Panic!), is useful outside
aircraft emergency situations too.

Brian.

I'd add shock management into your repertoire, Stealth. And to manage
shock you need to be able to monitor vitals. Proper methods of moving
a patient to safety, a short distance away from a crash site without
further injury may be very important. Help may not be immediately
forthcoming if the crash happens in a remote or even just a rural
area. You may need to treat for the long term. Now the situation is
more complex and recurrent training may be of great value. I believe
training is money well spent. Losing a loved one because you are
cheap would be hard to deal with. FWIW, discouraging people from
getting this training is not wise in my opinion,. You are correct in
that staying calm and making the right decisions is paramount. This
may not be easy when your loved one is the victim.

Joe Schneider
8437R

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 21:45:26 -0700, Brian Burger

wrote:
snip

1. if you think you are going to prang you have the wrong attitude
to
flying and maintenance. your certified engine has no reason not to
make 2000 hours trouble free if the maintenance is sound. no reason
at
all. prevention is far better than experience when it comes to
accidents.

2. first aid is quite simple for 99% of cases.

if a person is on their way out of life firstly their breathing
stops
or their airway gets obstructed. 300 seconds later (roughly) their
heart runs out of oxygen and stops.

the heart never stops while they are breathing.

the priority for first aid is to keep the airway clear and
unobstructed.
if some one is out of it, roll them on their side, gently move the
head back and pull their jaw up to keep the trachea open.
make sure they havent swallowed their tongue.
they will be quite comfortable in that position for a few hours.

all of the rest of the mickey mouse training is really devoted to
half
of the remaining 1% of situations and can be looked at in that light
quite competently.

3. gentle pressure to the area will stop most bleeding

4. it helps the thinking considerably if you dont panic.

there you go. that's the crux of a 2 day $120 dollar first aid
course.
just as an aid to getting the priorities right, in a year working in
a
busy hospital with really frail, injured and sick people I've never
needed to give first aid ever. in your flying you'll be dealing with
healthy people.

Stealth Pilot