irrefutable bottom line about picture ID's

"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Roger Long wrote:

I actually agree 100% that pilots should have photo ID's. It's taking
it
out of the homeland security pot and calling it an anti-terrorist
measure
that is silly. We should have had them years ago. It's for protection
of
our aircraft and avionics, not the homeland.

I guess if some terrorist steals an airplane and flies it on a suicide
mission
we can arrest him for not having a picture ID....

Here's another scenario that makes the picture ID seem REALLY worthless::

Some foreigner comes here on a mission (his own mission from "allah"),
gets
a legit Visa, is fully checked out, plays by all the rules, goes to flight
school,
gets his license with a nice little picture on it. Waits patiently and
follows
all the rules then after he has his nice pictureID pilot license goes on
his
terror flight with a rented airplane.

But... he had a valid picture ID! I don't know about you but I feel
safer...



Picture IDs do 2 things:

1. They make it more convenient for you, the pilot. You can identify
yourself more easily when renting, or when crossing a controlled gate to get
to your plane, and stuff like that. If you are a pilot with a "mission",
well...., it will be more convenient.

2. They make it somewhat more difficult to operate on a borrowed or purely
stolen licence. This might make it harder for the odd failed-medical to get
in the air. It might also subvert that very rare joyrider/terrorist who
wants to steal a plane by openly walking onto the ramp without real
credentials.

As you have stated, I am sure that any serious terrorist will have those
bases covered.

But you guys really should listen to yourselves once in a while:

"Some foreigner comes here on a mission....". No-where is it carved in
stone that a terrorist has to be foreign... as in McVeigh, for example. The
current voter-apathy is some western societies might be a serious symptom
that a significant segment of the population no longer gives a real damn
about their country. (Hell, it can be argued that some significant number
of corporations don't give a real damn for their country, either, but I
digress.) Of that segment, some tiny deranged portion may harbour real
enmity.

Some are caught in the 8th grade:

http://kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=2343204

I expect that many are not.

Icebound wrote:
"Some foreigner comes here on a mission....". No-where is it carved in
stone that a terrorist has to be foreign... as in McVeigh, for example.
Exactly. Foreigner or no foreigner a picture ID does nothing to stop someone
bound and determined to commit mayhem or harm others. Laws are effective only
for the law-abiding. Criminals, by definition, do not obey laws. But what the heck,
if a little more inconvenience and the addition of a "renewal fee" makes
us all feel safer its worth it I guess... sigh

The
current voter-apathy is some western societies might be a serious symptom
that a significant segment of the population no longer gives a real damn
about their country. (Hell, it can be argued that some significant number
of corporations don't give a real damn for their country, either, but I
digress.) Of that segment, some tiny deranged portion may harbour real
enmity.

It is not the responsibility of Corporations to "give a real damn for their country".
Their responsibility is to their stockholders... those who have paid money for shares
and expect them to be successful and not to lose money. Only individual citizens are
capable of "giving a damn". It could be argued that those who actually pay taxes in
this country are shareholders in a similar sense.

Some are caught in the 8th grade:

http://kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=2343204

I expect that many are not.

"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Icebound wrote:
The
current voter-apathy is some western societies might be a serious
symptom
that a significant segment of the population no longer gives a real damn
about their country. (Hell, it can be argued that some significant
number
of corporations don't give a real damn for their country, either, but I
digress.) Of that segment, some tiny deranged portion may harbour real
enmity.

It is not the responsibility of Corporations to "give a real damn for
their country".
Their responsibility is to their stockholders... those who have paid money
for shares
and expect them to be successful and not to lose money. Only individual
citizens are
capable of "giving a damn". It could be argued that those who actually pay
taxes in
this country are shareholders in a similar sense.


The "corporations" reference was a self-admitted digression, but since you
chose to address it:

I would argue that it is very much the responsibility of Corporations to
"give a real damn for their country".

The Nation provides the corporation with workers and with the mechanisms for
raising capital. The Nation's security and police forces provide a
civilized background against which the Corporation can do its business with
some semblance of safety, security, and reasonable expectation of
longevity.... not only to its entity, but to its people, its material, and
its capital. The Nation's network of laws provide displute-settlement
mechanisms to help ensure that the Corporation will not be cheated, and that
help it carry out business in a level playing field. In many cases, the
Corporation has received preferential tax treatment to locate plants in a
particular location to assist local economy.

I would argue that it is very much the responsibility of Corporations to
"give a real damn for their country".

The Nation provides the corporation with workers and with the mechanisms
for
raising capital. The Nation's security and police forces provide a
civilized background against which the Corporation can do its business
with
some semblance of safety, security, and reasonable expectation of
longevity.... not only to its entity, but to its people, its material, and
its capital. The Nation's network of laws provide displute-settlement
mechanisms to help ensure that the Corporation will not be cheated, and
that
help it carry out business in a level playing field. In many cases, the
Corporation has received preferential tax treatment to locate plants in a
particular location to assist local economy.

I would argue that it is very much the responsibility of Corporations to
"give a real damn for their country".

Where your logic goes awry is when you forget the very simple fact that
Corporations are made up of citizens, just like you and me.

This fact -- so often ignored by the ignorant youth of our nation -- is the
utter downfall of the Left's anti-business/anti-corporation ideology.
Somehow, some way, the Left trash talks "multi-national corporations" and
"big corporations" as if they were messengers of evil, when, in fact,
corporations represent the ultimate, perfect expression of communal
ownership of capital.

In short, they represent everything the Left supposedly stands for...

This bitter irony never fails to make me laugh out loud whenever I see the
violent, left-wing protesters outside the World Trade Organizations
meetings...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:9q35d.254072$Fg5.250970@attbi_s53...
The Nation provides the corporation with workers and with the mechanisms
for
raising capital. The Nation's security and police forces provide a
civilized background against which the Corporation can do its business
with
some semblance of safety, security, and reasonable expectation of
longevity.... not only to its entity, but to its people, its material,
and
its capital. The Nation's network of laws provide displute-settlement
mechanisms to help ensure that the Corporation will not be cheated, and
that
help it carry out business in a level playing field. In many cases, the
Corporation has received preferential tax treatment to locate plants in
a
particular location to assist local economy.

I would argue that it is very much the responsibility of Corporations to
"give a real damn for their country".

Where your logic goes awry is when you forget the very simple fact that
Corporations are made up of citizens, just like you and me.



So how is the logic awry? If corporations are made up of citizens like you
and me, is it not a responsibility of those citizens to "give a real damn
for their country", given all that the country provides to the
corporation????

So how is the logic awry? If corporations are made up of citizens like
you
and me, is it not a responsibility of those citizens to "give a real damn
for their country", given all that the country provides to the
corporation????

Of course!

But it is the PEOPLE who do this, not "the corporation" -- which is simply
an aggregate of the whole.

Demonizing corporations is popular, but terribly silly.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 00:59:49 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

Somehow, some way, the Left trash talks "multi-national corporations" and
"big corporations" as if they were messengers of evil, when, in fact,
corporations represent the ultimate, perfect expression of communal
ownership of capital.

*hehe* :-))
I think I .sig that.

#m

--
The more one is absorbed in fighting Evil,
the less one is tempted to place the Good
in question. (J.P. Sartre)

The Nation provides the corporation with workers and with the
mechanisms for raising capital. The Nation's security and police
forces provide a civilized background against which the Corporation
can do its business with some semblance of safety, security, and
reasonable expectation of longevity.... not only to its entity, but
to its people, its material, and its capital. The Nation's network
of laws provide displute-settlement mechanisms to help ensure that
the Corporation will not be cheated, and that help it carry out
business in a level playing field. In many cases, the Corporation
has received preferential tax treatment to locate plants in a
particular location to assist local economy.

I would argue that it is very much the responsibility of Corporations
to "give a real damn for their country".

Unfortunately, outsourcing has totally invalidated this ideal.

"Icebound" wrote in message
t.cable.rogers.com...

The
current voter-apathy is some western societies might be a serious symptom
that a significant segment of the population no longer gives a real damn
about their country.

Or it could be a measure that they don't need to give a damn. Hear me out:
if you lived in Iraq under Saddam, Romania unde Ceaucescu, etc. you needed
to pay *very* careful attention to "politics" because it was a life-or-death
issue, and it seeped into every aspect of your daily life, too. Want a
better apartment, job, anything, all of life was controlled by government.
Apathy meant death or deprivation.

Here in the US, you can live an entire upper middle-class life and unless
you have a run-in with the local school committee or zoning board, never
really care who's in control.

I'm not saying this is the *intelligent* choice, but given that the history
of mankind is largely that of tyrants and kings, this is something of an
achievement.

digress.) Of that segment, some tiny deranged portion may harbour real
enmity.


Statistical aberration. No question we have our share of homegrown wack
jobs, guys who shoot up abortion clinics, apocalyptic visionaries in Texas,
etc. But no one proposed baggage screening to get on my Cessna when that's
all it was. Not to be ignored but they are not the primary problem today, or
even the secondary one.

Best,
-cwk.

Icebound wrote:

Picture IDs do 2 things:
......

They do three things. In addition to those you mentioned, they effectively remove
more money from your wallet. The NJ driver's license is now $24. A passport is $55.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.