Challenger Crashe at TEB

Andrew Gideon wrote:

It doesn't appear that ice was a factor:


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...ck=1&cset=true

The pilot is claiming that something broke:

http://www.wkyt.com/Global/story.asp?S=2902222

A radio report I heard said that the pilot said that he couldn't pull the
yoke back, at which point he discontinued the takeoff.

Probably all that frost on the elevator made it too heavy to lift up for
rotation. :-)

It does sound like something failed that blocked or froze the control
column. Sounds unlikely, but this was an experienced captain (one
source said 15,000 hours) so I trust he knew that the stick wasn't
moving enough for takeoff.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message It does sound like something failed that
blocked or froze the control
column. Sounds unlikely, but this was an experienced captain (one
source said 15,000 hours) so I trust he knew that the stick wasn't
moving enough for takeoff.

Trusting sorts get squashed. The PIC may very well have that much flight
time, but according to my source he was typed in Challengers just 2 weeks
ago. The FO purportedly had a couple hours total in Challengers. My source
indicates that one pilot wanted to continue the take-off and one wanted to
abort. Poor CRM led to mayhem.

D. (so much for icing)

Capt.Doug wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message It does sound like something failed that
blocked or froze the control
column. Sounds unlikely, but this was an experienced captain (one
source said 15,000 hours) so I trust he knew that the stick wasn't
moving enough for takeoff.


Trusting sorts get squashed. The PIC may very well have that much flight
time, but according to my source he was typed in Challengers just 2 weeks
ago. The FO purportedly had a couple hours total in Challengers. My source
indicates that one pilot wanted to continue the take-off and one wanted to
abort. Poor CRM led to mayhem.

Yes, poor CRM can be deadly. I didn't hear the time in type, just the
total PIC. Even so, it seems like someone that experienced would be
able to tell functioning controls from non-functioning controls.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ...
Capt.Doug wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message It does sound like something failed that
blocked or froze the control
column. Sounds unlikely, but this was an experienced captain (one
source said 15,000 hours) so I trust he knew that the stick wasn't
moving enough for takeoff.


Trusting sorts get squashed. The PIC may very well have that much flight
time, but according to my source he was typed in Challengers just 2 weeks
ago. The FO purportedly had a couple hours total in Challengers. My source
indicates that one pilot wanted to continue the take-off and one wanted to
abort. Poor CRM led to mayhem.

Yes, poor CRM can be deadly. I didn't hear the time in type, just the total PIC. Even so, it seems like someone that
experienced would be able to tell functioning controls from non-functioning controls.


Matt


Voice recorder was pretty much quite except for an abort takeoff comment. The pilot apparently said 'something broke'
after the crash, and another comment I heard said that the yoke only moved about 1"....

Anyone here know what kind of control locks are installed on the
Challengers?

Dave


On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 00:24:11 GMT, "Blueskies"
wrote:


"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ...
Capt.Doug wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message It does sound like something failed that
blocked or froze the control
column. Sounds unlikely, but this was an experienced captain (one
source said 15,000 hours) so I trust he knew that the stick wasn't
moving enough for takeoff.


Trusting sorts get squashed. The PIC may very well have that much flight
time, but according to my source he was typed in Challengers just 2 weeks
ago. The FO purportedly had a couple hours total in Challengers. My source
indicates that one pilot wanted to continue the take-off and one wanted to
abort. Poor CRM led to mayhem.

Yes, poor CRM can be deadly. I didn't hear the time in type, just the total PIC. Even so, it seems like someone that
experienced would be able to tell functioning controls from non-functioning controls.


Matt


Voice recorder was pretty much quite except for an abort takeoff comment. The pilot apparently said 'something broke'
after the crash, and another comment I heard said that the yoke only moved about 1"....

"Dave" wrote in message ...
Anyone here know what kind of control locks are installed on the
Challengers?

Dave



That is what I was thinking...

Blueskies wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message ...

Anyone here know what kind of control locks are installed on the
Challengers?

Dave




That is what I was thinking...



I don't know what the control system design is on the Challenger, but
perusing the Moog web site suggests that it uses Moog hydraulic
actuators. If that is the case, then no control locks are needed. I've
never heard of a modern bizjet using control locks, but I suppose there
are some that do.


Matt

Under what circumstances are pilots required to calculate an
accelerate-stop distance, and take off only on a runway that is longer
than that distance?

Jose
--
Nothing is more powerful than a commercial interest.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

From: Dave
Date: 2/5/2005 19:32 Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Anyone here know what kind of control locks are installed on the
Challengers?

Dave


There are no control locks. When hyd pressure bleeds down they're basically
locked in place.