How long before /G required for IFR?

wrote:

I have been cleared, as I said, many times, on departure, "direct
FUBAR intersection"

It's been a long time since I've flown /A or /U, but I don't happen to
recall being cleared this way.

However, many IFR departures out of CDW get a clearance "180 vectors LANNA
v30...". I myself have received that while /A or /U. Yet, there's no way
to fly that if RADAR happens to go down.

Making it stranger, one of the VORs on which LANNA is based is roughly
between the airport and LANNA. So a clearance "...SBJ v30 LANNA..." would
yield almost the exact same track *and* be flyable w/o GPS or RADAR.

I've never understood why they use LANNA instead of SBJ as the first fix.

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:
wrote:


I have been cleared, as I said, many times, on departure, "direct
FUBAR intersection"


It's been a long time since I've flown /A or /U, but I don't happen to
recall being cleared this way.

No controller who knows what he's doing clears a /A or /U direct FUBAR
when FUBAR is outside the service volume of the navaid.



However, many IFR departures out of CDW get a clearance "180 vectors LANNA
v30...". I myself have received that while /A or /U. Yet, there's no way
to fly that if RADAR happens to go down.

No clearance with vectors is flyable or issuable without radar.

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:02:59 -0700, Newps wrote:

No controller who knows what he's doing clears a /A or /U direct FUBAR
when FUBAR is outside the service volume of the navaid.


How could FUBAR be "outside the service volume of the navaid"?

It's an intersection.

wrote:

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:02:59 -0700, Newps wrote:

No controller who knows what he's doing clears a /A or /U direct FUBAR
when FUBAR is outside the service volume of the navaid.

How could FUBAR be "outside the service volume of the navaid"?

It's an intersection.

An intersection defined by the 015 radial off the Phoenix VOR and 22 DME.

--
Peter













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On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 09:20:37 -0500, "Peter R."
wrote:

wrote:

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:02:59 -0700, Newps wrote:

No controller who knows what he's doing clears a /A or /U direct FUBAR
when FUBAR is outside the service volume of the navaid.

How could FUBAR be "outside the service volume of the navaid"?

It's an intersection.

An intersection defined by the 015 radial off the Phoenix VOR and 22 DME.


How can an intersection be "outside the service volume"?

wrote:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 09:20:37 -0500, "Peter R."
wrote:

wrote:

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:02:59 -0700, Newps wrote:

No controller who knows what he's doing clears a /A or /U direct FUBAR
when FUBAR is outside the service volume of the navaid.

How could FUBAR be "outside the service volume of the navaid"?

It's an intersection.

An intersection defined by the 015 radial off the Phoenix VOR and 22 DME.

How can an intersection be "outside the service volume"?

I didn't state that it was. I was just pointing out how this particular
intersection was defined.

At 22 DME from the navaid, I don't see how it could be outside the service
volume.

--
Peter













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"Peter R." wrote in message
...

An intersection defined by the 015 radial off the Phoenix VOR and 22 DME.


That's not an intersection, that's a DME fix. An intersection is a point
defined by any combination of courses, radials, or bearings of two or more
navigational aids.

wrote:
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:02:59 -0700, Newps wrote:


No controller who knows what he's doing clears a /A or /U direct FUBAR
when FUBAR is outside the service volume of the navaid.



How could FUBAR be "outside the service volume of the navaid"?

I should have specified the navaid you are currently navigating off of.
For example direct FUBAR is not legal for the controller if FUBAR is
300 miles away.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

I should have specified the navaid you are currently navigating off of.
For example direct FUBAR is not legal for the controller if FUBAR is 300
miles away.


Yes it is. Direct to any point is legal in a radar environment and the only
way to get direct to a non-navaid fix is in a radar environment.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

I should have specified the navaid you are currently navigating off of.
For example direct FUBAR is not legal for the controller if FUBAR is 300
miles away.


Service volume is applicable only to navaids.