How long before /G required for IFR?

wrote:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 09:20:37 -0500, "Peter R."
wrote:

wrote:

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:02:59 -0700, Newps wrote:

No controller who knows what he's doing clears a /A or /U direct FUBAR
when FUBAR is outside the service volume of the navaid.

How could FUBAR be "outside the service volume of the navaid"?

It's an intersection.

An intersection defined by the 015 radial off the Phoenix VOR and 22 DME.

How can an intersection be "outside the service volume"?

I didn't state that it was. I was just pointing out how this particular
intersection was defined.

At 22 DME from the navaid, I don't see how it could be outside the service
volume.

--
Peter













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Let's all back up for a moment, shall we?

Some of you may not know this, but FUBAR is a fairly commonly used acronym
in the US, standing for F*cked Up Beyond All Repair.

When I originally read this thread, I did not realize that there was
actually an intersection named "FUBAR", I thought it was a generic
reference, such as "Podunk, AR".

I thought the mythical FUBAR could be any waypoint, hence it could be a VOR,
and the aircraft could be outside of it's service volume.

Hope this serves as a clarification...




"Peter R." wrote in message
...
wrote:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 09:20:37 -0500, "Peter R."
wrote:

wrote:

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:02:59 -0700, Newps wrote:

No controller who knows what he's doing clears a /A or /U direct FUBAR
when FUBAR is outside the service volume of the navaid.

How could FUBAR be "outside the service volume of the navaid"?

It's an intersection.

An intersection defined by the 015 radial off the Phoenix VOR and 22
DME.

How can an intersection be "outside the service volume"?

I didn't state that it was. I was just pointing out how this particular
intersection was defined.

At 22 DME from the navaid, I don't see how it could be outside the service
volume.

--
Peter













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"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message
. com...
Let's all back up for a moment, shall we?

Some of you may not know this, but FUBAR is a fairly commonly used acronym
in the US, standing for F*cked Up Beyond All Repair.

When I originally read this thread, I did not realize that there was
actually an intersection named "FUBAR", I thought it was a generic
reference, such as "Podunk, AR".

I thought the mythical FUBAR could be any waypoint, hence it could be a
VOR,
and the aircraft could be outside of it's service volume.

Hope this serves as a clarification...


Living in the Phoenix area, I see FUBAR on the chart all the time but I was
wondering if people were using it as a generic intersection name...guess
not.

;O)

Jay B

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:dAmVd.87488$Yu.618@fed1read01...
"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message
. com...


Living in the Phoenix area, I see FUBAR on the chart all the time but I
was
wondering if people were using it as a generic intersection name...guess
not.

I started this thread , and I was using it as a generic. I'd intended
"foobar" which is widely recgnized as a placeholder by programmers, but I
figured if I wrote FOOBAR people would complain that I couldn't possibly be
cleared to a 6-letter intersection because there is no such thing, which
would invariably devolve into a debate on whether that sort of thing is
permitted by the FARs and a ****ing match between pilots and controllers
saying they only know what it says in the .65. Mission accomplished.

-cwk.

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 17:57:32 GMT, "Colin W Kingsbury"
wrote:


"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:dAmVd.87488$Yu.618@fed1read01...
"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message
. com...


Living in the Phoenix area, I see FUBAR on the chart all the time but I
was
wondering if people were using it as a generic intersection name...guess
not.

I started this thread , and I was using it as a generic. I'd intended
"foobar" which is widely recgnized as a placeholder by programmers, but I
figured if I wrote FOOBAR people would complain that I couldn't possibly be
cleared to a 6-letter intersection because there is no such thing, which
would invariably devolve into a debate on whether that sort of thing is
permitted by the FARs and a ****ing match between pilots and controllers
saying they only know what it says in the .65. Mission accomplished.

-cwk.


nice job.

What chart do you see it on? I couldn't find it on L-4, nor was it
listed in airnav.com database...

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"John Clonts" wrote in message
ups.com...
What chart do you see it on? I couldn't find it on L-4, nor was it
listed in airnav.com database...

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

Hmmm, looks like I sit corrected (at least as far as paper charts go...)

Golden Eagle flight planning software shows it as:

015r (027* true) 22nm (approx) from the Phoenix VOR (PXR)

Just about in the center of the NE quadrant of the Phoenix Class B airspace
where there is an almost square chunk of 7000-10000'.

But you're right, it isn't on either the Phoenix Sectional or the Phoenix
TAC.

Jay B

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:FNqVd.92478$Yu.70103@fed1read01...

Hmmm, looks like I sit corrected (at least as far as paper charts go...)

Golden Eagle flight planning software shows it as:

015r (027* true) 22nm (approx) from the Phoenix VOR (PXR)

Just about in the center of the NE quadrant of the Phoenix Class B
airspace where there is an almost square chunk of 7000-10000'.

But you're right, it isn't on either the Phoenix Sectional or the Phoenix
TAC.


I don't think you'll find any DME fix on a sectional or a TAC.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
t...

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:FNqVd.92478$Yu.70103@fed1read01...

Hmmm, looks like I sit corrected (at least as far as paper charts go...)

Golden Eagle flight planning software shows it as:

015r (027* true) 22nm (approx) from the Phoenix VOR (PXR)

Just about in the center of the NE quadrant of the Phoenix Class B
airspace where there is an almost square chunk of 7000-10000'.

But you're right, it isn't on either the Phoenix Sectional or the Phoenix
TAC.


I don't think you'll find any DME fix on a sectional or a TAC.


Thanks for the clarification...

Jay B

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
t...

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
news:FNqVd.92478$Yu.70103@fed1read01...

Hmmm, looks like I sit corrected (at least as far as paper charts go...)

Golden Eagle flight planning software shows it as:

015r (027* true) 22nm (approx) from the Phoenix VOR (PXR)

Just about in the center of the NE quadrant of the Phoenix Class B
airspace where there is an almost square chunk of 7000-10000'.

But you're right, it isn't on either the Phoenix Sectional or the Phoenix
TAC.


I don't think you'll find any DME fix on a sectional or a TAC.


So is it on ANY chart? If so, which? I looked at all the STARs, but not all the IAPs nor Departures...

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ