Missing Engine Log Book

The engine is worth it's core value only - the log book is what makes
an engine CERTIFIED... Call TCM and ask them what it will cost to get
the engine certified again - and hold on to your wallet...

denny

I'm going to disagree with Denny and say it's not nearly that bad. The
engine is certified if it has the appropriate data plate (seemingly
without regard to what is attached to the data plate G). However, if
indeed there are NO logs, then at this precise moment the engine (and
hence the aircraft) are not airworthy.

Basically all you are going to need to make it airworthy is a sheet of
paper from the AI that did the last annual, with the annual engine
signoff. That done, and without evidence of anything to the contrary,
you are legal to fly. [And don't say that because there is no log book
that you don't know if anything was done since annual to make it
unairworthy. Those are independent events, and the logbook is only one
slight way you might discover such a change.]

Now... the money items: Without proper logbook documentation, it is
harder to sell the plane. Not a big problem if you plan to keep the
plane a long time (by which time you will have probably gone through an
overhaul anyway), but still an issue.

Second, you have no record of exactly what is installed in the engine.
The last annual AI will be attesting to all the AD's performed as of
that time, but you have no formal record that they were properly
carried out. Future AI *could* (and very likely might) insist that
some work be done to verify the AD's before signing off on the next
annual. And you might find yourself doing extensive work (splitting
the case) just to find that your engine didn't even fall under some AD
in the future.

Can you make a NEW logbook? Sure, done all the time. You start by
trying to get copies of the last overhaul records, plus whatever the
manufacturer might still have on that specific serial number. Ditto
the accessories. Then take all the receipts, invoices, etc. And you
make up what you can. Perfectly legal... but doesn't really solve all
the problems above.

Me? I would start with the negotiating position that the engine is due
for overhaul and reduce the price as if the engine was at TBO.

As others have pointed out (and I won't belabor their points) this is not
true.

Jim


"Denny" wrote in message
ups.com...
The engine is worth it's core value only - the log book is what makes
an engine CERTIFIED...

Well, simple enough to find out for sure... He can call the FSDO and
ask them if he makes up a logbook is the engine airworthy... Be
interesting for him to report back to us... I'm always willing to
learn...

denny

Denny wrote:
Well, simple enough to find out for sure... He can call the FSDO and
ask them if he makes up a logbook is the engine airworthy... Be
interesting for him to report back to us... I'm always willing to
learn...

There's really no requirement to have a logbook for the engine at
all. There are record keeping requirements, but they don't specify you
have to have everything in some type of book.

That said, to be airworthy, all of the ADs on the engine have to be
signed off somewhere. While reciepts with hours and details of work
might be informative, unless they are properly signed off (unlikely),
that doesn't satisfy the requirements. I would think that you'd have
to get the proper signoffs before the engine was airworthy. This might
be a simple as having the original signer recreate the entries in a new
logbook, or as difficult as having all applicable ADs performed again.


John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"Denny" writes:

Well, simple enough to find out for sure... He can call the FSDO and
ask them if he makes up a logbook is the engine airworthy... Be
interesting for him to report back to us... I'm always willing to
learn...

Why do you think "the logbook" is needed?

Can you point out where the FARs speak of "logbook"?

What are the FAR stated requirements for this "logbook"?

How long must one keep this "logbook"?

-jav

Airplanes are bought and sold every day with some/all the logs missing.
It does not affect airworthiness, just the value.



Denny wrote:
Well, simple enough to find out for sure... He can call the FSDO and
ask them if he makes up a logbook is the engine airworthy... Be
interesting for him to report back to us... I'm always willing to
learn...

denny

"Newps" wrote in message
...
Airplanes are bought and sold every day with some/all the logs missing.
It does not affect airworthiness, just the value.


Which is what the OP was asking --- how much would they discount the value.

Depends. The real value is the airframe log. I wouldn't really care
much about the engine or prop log.



Matt Barrow wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message
...

Airplanes are bought and sold every day with some/all the logs missing.
It does not affect airworthiness, just the value.



Which is what the OP was asking --- how much would they discount the value.

Hmmm, lots of opinions...
In spite of contrary opinions from folks in the group, until the engine
is found to be airworthy I will continue to maintain that engine has
core value only... He can't prove that the connecting rod numbers are
correct, that the bearing numbers are correct, that the internal bolts
were correctly torqued, and on, and on - and there is no signature
attesting that the field repairs (overhaul) done meets the
manufacturer's specs (it takes more than the data plate on the case to
be a certified airworthy engine)...
Now, some of our august mechanic members are making noises like they
would be willing to sign their license # that the engine is
airworthy... But, I wonder if they actually would if it was in their
shop??? The bottom line is that the engine has to be opened up, part
numbers verified, parts measured for manufacturers tolerances, AD's
verified, and then reassembled, and someone has to put his professional
license on the line by signing a log of the work done and declaring the
engine airworthy... Probably what Jim/Newps, maybe $3000 for labor,
plus gaskets? Not a big deal, but it has to be done... If I were
considering buying the plane, the purchase offer would include that
work as a contingency... And I haven't seen anything about the prop
log?

Just remember Jack, the old adage - fall in love and you get screwed in
the end...

denny

denny