Oshkosh gate admission on Sunday 24th?

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 04:09:46 -0500, John T
wrote:

I've never gotten a free admission, but then I don't think I've worked
20 hours either. About the only thing I've been given is a volunteer patch.
I've heard conflicting stories about what it takes to earn the volunteer
patch. When I worked flight line safety, it was said 16 hours, but I've
recieved a patch all but one year regardless of number of hours when
I've volunteered.

I usually get the weeklong wristband anyway.

John

The EAA is unbelievable. If someone donates any of thier free time for
them, they should be given a week pass for the current show without
question.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 17:08:05 -0400, Joe Camp wrote:

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 04:09:46 -0500, John T
wrote:

I've never gotten a free admission, but then I don't think I've worked
20 hours either. About the only thing I've been given is a volunteer patch.
I've heard conflicting stories about what it takes to earn the volunteer
patch. When I worked flight line safety, it was said 16 hours, but I've
recieved a patch all but one year regardless of number of hours when
I've volunteered.

I usually get the weeklong wristband anyway.

John

The EAA is unbelievable. If someone donates any of thier free time for
them, they should be given a week pass for the current show without
question.

"Any of their free time"? Like, if I take 10 seconds out of my busy day and
pick up a piece of trash at the entry point, I should get free admission?

I can see EAA's logic. If they gave free admission for the current show, it's
quite possible that they'd have problems having enough volunteers towards the
end of the week. There'd be some of folks putting in 20 hours or so on the
setup weekend, then not doing anything at all during the main part of the show
'cause they already got their free ride.

Seems like their policy is aimed the right way; getting a group of folks who
come back and volunteer in later years. Volunteer in 2005, put your 20 hours
in, get free admission in 2006. Come in free in 2006, and while you're there
anyway, put in a couple hours per day volunteering so you can get free admission
the year after that, too.

None of these shows are possible without the volunteer cadre. I think EAA knows
that if they seriously start shafting them, the Board of Directors will be out
picking up trash themselves. :-)

Ron Wanttaja

"Any of their free time"? Like, if I take 10 seconds out of my busy day and
pick up a piece of trash at the entry point, I should get free admission?

I can see EAA's logic. If they gave free admission for the current show, it's
quite possible that they'd have problems having enough volunteers towards the
end of the week. There'd be some of folks putting in 20 hours or so on the
setup weekend, then not doing anything at all during the main part of the show
'cause they already got their free ride.

Seems like their policy is aimed the right way; getting a group of folks who
come back and volunteer in later years. Volunteer in 2005, put your 20 hours
in, get free admission in 2006. Come in free in 2006, and while you're there
anyway, put in a couple hours per day volunteering so you can get free admission
the year after that, too.

None of these shows are possible without the volunteer cadre. I think EAA knows
that if they seriously start shafting them, the Board of Directors will be out
picking up trash themselves. :-)

Ron Wanttaja

I guess some of us value our free time more than others. How do you
figure that allowing a more generous policy towards volunteers is
shafting them? I value my time, what you do with yours is your
business. Once I spend the time and money to go to an event like
Oshkosh, I want to roam around it freely to suit myself. But if I were
to volunteer my precious time there, I'd want more than to be given a
free pass for next years show, after working all week during the
present one. You are way too protective of EAA's policies. What did
you do, appoint yourself their goodwill ambassador? regardless of the
fairness of their policies?

"Joe Camp" wrote

I guess some of us value our free time more than others.

Laa-te-daa!

Once I spend the time and money to go to an event like
Oshkosh, I want to roam around it freely to suit myself.

Still plenty of time to do that, if you go and spend 2 or 3 hours per day,
working.

But if I were
to volunteer my precious time there, I'd want more than to be given a
free pass for next years show, after working all week during the
present one.

IMHO, you are missing part of the point. When you volunteer, you get to be
a part of it, that gives more satisfaction (to me) than you can imagine.
Shoot, I can't wait to go and work. That is part of the best part of the
week.

You are way too protective of EAA's policies. What did
you do, appoint yourself their goodwill ambassador? regardless of the
fairness of their policies?

Lighten up, huh? He has voiced his opinion, and you, yours. That is what
this is all about.

I like to volunteer; you don't, so don't! No big deal!
--
Jim in NC

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 00:54:04 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Joe Camp" wrote

I guess some of us value our free time more than others.

Laa-te-daa!

Once I spend the time and money to go to an event like
Oshkosh, I want to roam around it freely to suit myself.

Still plenty of time to do that, if you go and spend 2 or 3 hours per day,
working.

But if I were
to volunteer my precious time there, I'd want more than to be given a
free pass for next years show, after working all week during the
present one.

IMHO, you are missing part of the point. When you volunteer, you get to be
a part of it, that gives more satisfaction (to me) than you can imagine.
Shoot, I can't wait to go and work. That is part of the best part of the
week.

You are way too protective of EAA's policies. What did
you do, appoint yourself their goodwill ambassador? regardless of the
fairness of their policies?

Lighten up, huh? He has voiced his opinion, and you, yours. That is what
this is all about.

I like to volunteer; you don't, so don't! No big deal!


The idea of volunteering does not offend me at all. I have to admit,
after about 2 full days of walking the flightline and exhibition
buildings, I've had enough. And the idea of doing volunteer work from
that point on, I would find a welcome alternative. But I still don't
feel the EAA is generous enough in their repayment of volunteers.
I've talked to volunteers and was suprised how much the EAA makes them
work to get a pass. If a person puts in one full day of volunteering,
they should get a pass for the rest of the show. The volunteers are
still a small number compared to the regular attendees. The EAA is way
too tight with their money. Charging people that bring showplanes
admission is another issue. Warbird owners constantly report non-EAA
fly-in's paying for their fuel if they show up. The EAA however, pays
for no one's fuel, but instead charges admission. If the showplanes
didn't show up, there wouldn't be much of a fly-in. I'm boycotting Sun
'n Fun from now on. They've gotten too greedy.

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 09:55:52 -0400, Joe Camp wrote:

Warbird owners constantly report non-EAA
fly-in's paying for their fuel if they show up. The EAA however, pays
for no one's fuel, but instead charges admission. If the showplanes
didn't show up, there wouldn't be much of a fly-in. I'm boycotting Sun
'n Fun from now on. They've gotten too greedy.

The Seattle-area Warbirds group claim that since Arlington won't be paying
*their* fuel and hotel bills this year, they're not coming. They're having an
event at another airport on the same weekend.

Ron Wanttaja

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 07:52:41 -0700, Ron Wanttaja
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 09:55:52 -0400, Joe Camp wrote:

Warbird owners constantly report non-EAA
fly-in's paying for their fuel if they show up. The EAA however, pays
for no one's fuel, but instead charges admission. If the showplanes
didn't show up, there wouldn't be much of a fly-in. I'm boycotting Sun
'n Fun from now on. They've gotten too greedy.

The Seattle-area Warbirds group claim that since Arlington won't be paying
*their* fuel and hotel bills this year, they're not coming. They're having an
event at another airport on the same weekend.

Ron Wanttaja

I wasn't aware that Arlington had been paying those
bills.... IMHO, the Blackjack Squadron, flying RV4's,
RV6's, RV8's should be getting their gas paid first since
they are home built experimental aircraft. After all, who
really is the reason for the Experimental Aircraft
Association????

John

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 00:43:08 -0400, Joe Camp wrote:

"Any of their free time"? Like, if I take 10 seconds out of my busy day and
pick up a piece of trash at the entry point, I should get free admission?

I can see EAA's logic. If they gave free admission for the current show, it's
quite possible that they'd have problems having enough volunteers towards the
end of the week. There'd be some of folks putting in 20 hours or so on the
setup weekend, then not doing anything at all during the main part of the show
'cause they already got their free ride.

Seems like their policy is aimed the right way; getting a group of folks who
come back and volunteer in later years. Volunteer in 2005, put your 20 hours
in, get free admission in 2006. Come in free in 2006, and while you're there
anyway, put in a couple hours per day volunteering so you can get free admission
the year after that, too.

None of these shows are possible without the volunteer cadre. I think EAA knows
that if they seriously start shafting them, the Board of Directors will be out
picking up trash themselves. :-)

I guess some of us value our free time more than others.

I certainly agree... which is why you don't often find me volunteering. I have
great respect for those who do, though. I've had free admission most of my
trips there, anyway. Those time that I haven't, I don't consider the admission
fees onerous.

How do you
figure that allowing a more generous policy towards volunteers is
shafting them?

I don't. My point is that if the *volunteers* think they are getting shafted,
they'll quit volunteering, and EAA knows that. It's fundamental economics...
restrictive policies trim the volunteer pool, overly generous policies mean less
folks paying their way. The trick is the find the proper "set point", and EAA
seems to have found a workable one.

Once I spend the time and money to go to an event like
Oshkosh, I want to roam around it freely to suit myself. But if I were
to volunteer my precious time there, I'd want more than to be given a
free pass for next years show, after working all week during the
present one.

See my "fundamental economics" comment above. At any give "set point," there
will be those who feel the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. Obviously, my "set
point" is probably at least as high as yours, since I don't volunteer, either.

You are way too protective of EAA's policies. What did
you do, appoint yourself their goodwill ambassador? regardless of the
fairness of their policies?

Snicker....

Ron Wanttaja