The New ATC: 4 Dimension Trajectory

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 00:34:17 -0500, Bob Noel
wrote in
::

They always always always slide to the right,
and slide to the right many times. You think this particular old idea is
any different?

Was Boeing doing the sliding?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer
Boeing officials say that by May they will give the FAA a
comprehensive plan for replacing the nation's radar-based air
traffic control system -- which is straining to handle the 93,000
aircraft that fly daily in U.S. airspace -- with a satellite-based
one that could squeeze perhaps 50 percent more flights into
available airspace and improve air safety.

Larry Dighera skrev:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:08:50 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
But that doesn't support the staff now working.

That's not an issue. ATC staffing will be subcontracted to India or
Dubai. It's the 21st century after all. :-)

I heard China is going to double it's traffic in the next five years and
they lack qualified ATCs.


L.

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

They always always always slide to the right,
and slide to the right many times. You think this particular old idea is
any different?

Was Boeing doing the sliding?

Yes.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

That's not an issue. ATC staffing will be subcontracted to India or
Dubai. It's the 21st century after all. :-)

Don't laugh, it may happen. To a certain extent, it really doesn't matter
if the guy controlling your flight is sitting in a dark room 200 miles away
or 8000 miles away.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:21:43 -0500, Bob Noel
wrote in
::

The concept of required time of arrival has been talked about
for years.

Apparently, among other things, 4DT supports tweaking that time en
route so there will be less holding, and stepped approach descents
will give way to throttled back glides.

It's going to be a loooooonnnnnngggggggg time before
it's actually implemented.

Perhaps. But IIRC Bowing is providing ATC under contract in the UK.

I don't think so. Bowing are not providing ATC under contact in the UK. ATC
is provided by NATS http://www.nats.co.uk/about/ownership.html

Jim Macklin wrote:

ATC needs to be renamed Air Traffic Coordination, they don't
control anything.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:00:39 +0100, "Leonard Milcin Jr."
wrote in ::

Larry Dighera skrev:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:08:50 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
But that doesn't support the staff now working.

That's not an issue. ATC staffing will be subcontracted to India or
Dubai. It's the 21st century after all. :-)

I heard China is going to double it's traffic in the next five years and
they lack qualified ATCs.

That's the beauty of ATC; the majority of it can be done from any
developed location on Earth.

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:34:44 -0000, "Chris"
wrote in ::


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:21:43 -0500, Bob Noel
wrote in
::

The concept of required time of arrival has been talked about
for years.

Apparently, among other things, 4DT supports tweaking that time en
route so there will be less holding, and stepped approach descents
will give way to throttled back glides.

It's going to be a loooooonnnnnngggggggg time before
it's actually implemented.

Perhaps. But IIRC Bowing is providing ATC under contract in the UK.

I don't think so. Bowing are not providing ATC under contact in the UK. ATC
is provided by NATS http://www.nats.co.uk/about/ownership.html


Interesting:

NATS is a public private partnership between the Airline Group, a
consortium of seven UK airlines, which holds 42%, NATS staff who
hold 5%, UK airport operator BAA plc, with 4%, and the government
which holds 49% and a golden share.

The Airline Group is a consortium of seven UK airlines: British
Airways, bmi British Midland, Virgin Atlantic, Britannia, Monarch,
easyJet and Airtours.


I do recall, that there was discussion several years ago of the UK
contracting with Boeing for ATC services, but I can't locate a
reference just now.

Here's some more interesting information about NATS:

http://www.rppi.org/atc15.html#Anchor-42816
August 2003
As reported here previously, NATS accomplished a financial
restructuring last spring that brought in BAA as a new investor
and led to new cash infusions by both BAA and NATS's 49% owner,
the U.K. government. Now NATS is about to launch a billion-dollar
bond issue to refinance a large part of its bank debt. That, in
turn, will permit the removal of restrictive provisions on the
debt that had prevented NATS from moving forward with its $1.6
billion, 10-year modernization program. The bond issue has
received AAA ratings by both Standard & Poor's and Moody's.

Apparently it was the FAA (not Boeing) who delayed implementation of
something similar to 4DT in the US:

http://www.reason.org/atcreform15.shtml
Jaws dropped last month when the FAA announced that
controller-pilot-data-link communications (CPDLC) was being put on
indefinite hold, despite a highly successful test program in
Miami. Automating routine ATC communications-in effect, switching
from voice to email-"is the key architectural enabler of almost
any future envisioned air traffic management system," says Kevin
Brown, one of Boeing's senior ATC people. "It is hard to imagine a
future where the connective tissue between aircraft and ground is
someone's voice over a VHF radio." And CPDLC isn't just about
automating a few routine voice messages. It could eventually
permit a plane's flight management system to automatically update
ATC computers with the plane's current trajectory, making possible
a "network-centric" approach to ATC.

By putting the program on hold, the FAA is ceding leadership in
CPDLC to Europe. Eurocontrol's plan will equip 15 en-route centers
by 2007, whereas observers now don't expect comparable nationwide
CPDLC equipage here until 2012, at the earliest.


More information he


http://commdocs.house.gov/committees...hsy73841_0.HTM
DEVELOPING THE NEXT GENERATION AIR TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON SPACE AND AERONAUTICS
COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
JULY 19, 2001