Learning from an owner annual

On 14 May 2006 03:37:06 -0700, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:


This seems odd, Robert. Is your plane parked outside? Why would those
inspection panel screws be so corroded? Unless...were they never
removed recently? (More work undone-but-paid-for?)

I strip a fair number of screws every year -- but I've NEVER had to
drill any out on either of the planes we've owned.

Dude, you really need to take a good look at the underside of a
Mooney, especially an older one. You just "think" a PA28 has a lot of
screws. Unless things have changed a whole bunch, they are mostly
countersunk machine screws, opposed to your universal head PK screws.

Really ups the temptation for a tech/owner to use power tools to crank
the **** out them when closing up. Makes me shudder just thinking
about it..

What I like is when you have everything in neat little tupperware cups
underneath the appropriate parts of the plane -- and then the shop
moves the plane. Or they pull an extension cord under your plane, and
lasso all the parts buckets. Or they get kicked over. THAT is my pet
peeve about doing an annual.

Mine is wheels off for inspection, somebody steps on the pedals and
blows out the wheel cylinder pistons.

I would highly recommend this experience to any aircraft owner who is
comfortable with a wrench.

Agree 100%. I have a voluminous knowledge of the inner workings of my
aircraft, solely because of doing the owner-assisted annuals.

In my case, the transition from allegedly mucho-experienced tech to
private pilot was definitely made a lot easier by having in-depth
knowledge of aircraft systems.

TC

wrote:

Dude, you really need to take a good look at the underside of a
Mooney, especially an older one. You just "think" a PA28 has a lot of
screws. Unless things have changed a whole bunch, they are mostly
countersunk machine screws, opposed to your universal head PK screws.

Really ups the temptation for a tech/owner to use power tools to crank
the **** out them when closing up. Makes me shudder just thinking
about it..


I have no problem using power tools to do that, you just need to use the
right ones and use them the right way. Every quality power screwdriver
I have ever used has an adjustable torque limiter, this will make sure
they don't get put in too tight.


--
Chris W
KE5GIX

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You know what? I've been through this one so many times, but it's been
a few years, and I just don't have the energy to fight this fight
again.

There is NO "torque-limiting" power screwdriver-type tool that has both
the ability to prevent over-tightening, and allow sufficient "torque"
to be applied to screws installed into aircraft nutplates.

A slightly boogered screw or nutplate will NOT be tightened
sufficiently, or else other screws will be over-tightened-there is NO
middle ground.

In most cases, a quality torque-limiting screwdriver set at minimal
torque can be used by an experienced operator to run screws and
initially secure panels. The final "ginch" needs to be performed by a
human that knows what the **** he/she is doing.

There is a large portion of the "certified technician" population that
isn't smart enuff to use the proper bit for the type of screw to be
r/r'd, let alone to use power to drive it. It's not much of a stretch
to say that this applies to owner-performed maintenance also.

TC

Yes and bits are cheap, use new Phillips bits regularly.
Once the screwdriver is damaged it will destroy all the
screw slots afterward.

If the screws have paint in the slot, clean it out before
you try to unscrew the fastener.

--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
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But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
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See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.



wrote in message
oups.com...
| You know what? I've been through this one so many times,
but it's been
| a few years, and I just don't have the energy to fight
this fight
| again.
|
| There is NO "torque-limiting" power screwdriver-type tool
that has both
| the ability to prevent over-tightening, and allow
sufficient "torque"
| to be applied to screws installed into aircraft nutplates.
|
| A slightly boogered screw or nutplate will NOT be
tightened
| sufficiently, or else other screws will be
over-tightened-there is NO
| middle ground.
|
| In most cases, a quality torque-limiting screwdriver set
at minimal
| torque can be used by an experienced operator to run
screws and
| initially secure panels. The final "ginch" needs to be
performed by a
| human that knows what the **** he/she is doing.
|
| There is a large portion of the "certified technician"
population that
| isn't smart enuff to use the proper bit for the type of
screw to be
| r/r'd, let alone to use power to drive it. It's not much
of a stretch
| to say that this applies to owner-performed maintenance
also.
|
| TC
|

wrote in message
oups.com...
You know what? I've been through this one so many times, but it's been
a few years, and I just don't have the energy to fight this fight
again.

There is NO "torque-limiting" power screwdriver-type tool that has both
the ability to prevent over-tightening, and allow sufficient "torque"
to be applied to screws installed into aircraft nutplates.




But... a power screwdriver set below the specified torque for a screw and
then torqued by hand with a calibrated torque wrench set to the proper
setting will work just fine, or am I wrong?

I believe that I am restating your paragraph below, but in a way that my son
or mother could read it.





A slightly boogered screw or nutplate will NOT be tightened
sufficiently, or else other screws will be over-tightened-there is NO
middle ground.



We were taught in A&P school not to reuse fasteners. I doubt very seriously
that this actually happens in the real world, but in the schools perfect
world, this should eleminate *most* of the "boogered" fastener problems.





In most cases, a quality torque-limiting screwdriver set at minimal
torque can be used by an experienced operator to run screws and
initially secure panels. The final "ginch" needs to be performed by a
human that knows what the **** he/she is doing.

There is a large portion of the "certified technician" population that
isn't smart enuff to use the proper bit for the type of screw to be
r/r'd, let alone to use power to drive it. It's not much of a stretch
to say that this applies to owner-performed maintenance also.

TC





---
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Tested on: 5/14/2006 9:55:47 PM
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New fasteners are cheaper than the labor to inspect and
clean old fasteners.




--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"C. Massey" wrote in message
. net...
|
| wrote in message
|
oups.com...
| You know what? I've been through this one so many times,
but it's been
| a few years, and I just don't have the energy to fight
this fight
| again.
|
| There is NO "torque-limiting" power screwdriver-type
tool that has both
| the ability to prevent over-tightening, and allow
sufficient "torque"
| to be applied to screws installed into aircraft
nutplates.
|
|
|
|
| But... a power screwdriver set below the specified torque
for a screw and
| then torqued by hand with a calibrated torque wrench set
to the proper
| setting will work just fine, or am I wrong?
|
| I believe that I am restating your paragraph below, but in
a way that my son
| or mother could read it.
|
|
|
|
|
| A slightly boogered screw or nutplate will NOT be
tightened
| sufficiently, or else other screws will be
over-tightened-there is NO
| middle ground.
|
|
|
| We were taught in A&P school not to reuse fasteners. I
doubt very seriously
| that this actually happens in the real world, but in the
schools perfect
| world, this should eleminate *most* of the "boogered"
fastener problems.
|
|
|
|
|
| In most cases, a quality torque-limiting screwdriver set
at minimal
| torque can be used by an experienced operator to run
screws and
| initially secure panels. The final "ginch" needs to be
performed by a
| human that knows what the **** he/she is doing.
|
| There is a large portion of the "certified technician"
population that
| isn't smart enuff to use the proper bit for the type of
screw to be
| r/r'd, let alone to use power to drive it. It's not much
of a stretch
| to say that this applies to owner-performed maintenance
also.
|
| TC
|
|
|
|
|
| ---
| avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
| Virus Database (VPS): 0619-3, 05/12/2006
| Tested on: 5/14/2006 9:55:47 PM
| avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software.
| http://www.avast.com
|
|
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message news:_9S9g.20789$ZW3.7907@dukeread04...
New fasteners are cheaper than the labor to inspect and
clean old fasteners.




--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P



I don't know...I come pretty cheap! ;-)

wrote:
You know what? I've been through this one so many times, but it's been
a few years, and I just don't have the energy to fight this fight
again.

There is NO "torque-limiting" power screwdriver-type tool that has both
the ability to prevent over-tightening, and allow sufficient "torque"
to be applied to screws installed into aircraft nutplates.

I guess I should have been more clear. I didn't intend to use the
screwdriver to set the screws to the proper torque, I never trust those
kind of tools for that, just to get it in with out getting them too
tight. On any thing that is important, I always go back over it with a
hand driver to finish the job and get them tight. Also why would anyone
reuse a screw with messed up threads? Just get a new one already. The
nut plate is another story though, those are a bit of work to replace so
I guess it would depend on just how bad the threads were.

--
Chris W
KE5GIX

Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com

I used a torque limiting powered screwdriver once on the PK screws into
tinnermans to put my Cessna back together. I learned a lessons after a
flight when several were missing. I use the power screwdriver to run the
screws in and the torque by hand. No problems since.

Ross

wrote:

You know what? I've been through this one so many times, but it's been
a few years, and I just don't have the energy to fight this fight
again.

There is NO "torque-limiting" power screwdriver-type tool that has both
the ability to prevent over-tightening, and allow sufficient "torque"
to be applied to screws installed into aircraft nutplates.

A slightly boogered screw or nutplate will NOT be tightened
sufficiently, or else other screws will be over-tightened-there is NO
middle ground.

In most cases, a quality torque-limiting screwdriver set at minimal
torque can be used by an experienced operator to run screws and
initially secure panels. The final "ginch" needs to be performed by a
human that knows what the **** he/she is doing.

There is a large portion of the "certified technician" population that
isn't smart enuff to use the proper bit for the type of screw to be
r/r'd, let alone to use power to drive it. It's not much of a stretch
to say that this applies to owner-performed maintenance also.

TC

Also, isn't the DC motor sparks thrown around inside a power screw driver a bit of a safety hazard?


wrote in message oups.com...
You know what? I've been through this one so many times, but it's been