How to land on a grass airstrip

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:34:42 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:

drclive wrote:

Can anybody point out a good bibliography or article that describes the
differences in landing on a grass airstrip for the first time, tips and
advices? Thanks

What sort of differences? Landing on grass isn't much different than
hard surface unless the grass is very tall, very wet, or hiding mud. :-)

I'd have to disagree with you on this.

It also depends on the soil composition. If it's clay and dry and hard as
concrete, yes, no difference other then the grass that you describe above.

If it any other type of soil composition where the weight of the plane may
sink a little, then soft field take off and landing techniques are in order
(yoke full aft when on ground and prop is turning).

See my other postings on the technique.

Allen

A Lieberman wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:34:42 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:


drclive wrote:


Can anybody point out a good bibliography or article that describes the
differences in landing on a grass airstrip for the first time, tips and
advices? Thanks

What sort of differences? Landing on grass isn't much different than
hard surface unless the grass is very tall, very wet, or hiding mud. :-)


I'd have to disagree with you on this.

It also depends on the soil composition. If it's clay and dry and hard as
concrete, yes, no difference other then the grass that you describe above.

If it any other type of soil composition where the weight of the plane may
sink a little, then soft field take off and landing techniques are in order
(yoke full aft when on ground and prop is turning).

See my other postings on the technique.

Allen
See earlier message of mine on landing on grass, but one should always
know the soil of the intended grass runway and taxi with the yoke full
back. The 3000' field I mentioned is in perfect condition. But I have
been on some that are very rough. This field will drain quite nicely,
but there are soft spots that you need to know about. We had to push a
Warrior out of the soft spot one time. He was trying to taxi out with
full power and four adults in the plane. We got him to get the other
three out and with a little engine and pushing in the right spots he got
out.

--
Regards,

Ross
C-172F 180 hp
KSWI

Ross wrote:

A Lieberman wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:34:42 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:


drclive wrote:


Can anybody point out a good bibliography or article that describes the
differences in landing on a grass airstrip for the first time, tips and
advices? Thanks


What sort of differences? Landing on grass isn't much different than
hard surface unless the grass is very tall, very wet, or hiding mud.
:-)



I'd have to disagree with you on this.
It also depends on the soil composition. If it's clay and dry and
hard as
concrete, yes, no difference other then the grass that you describe
above.

If it any other type of soil composition where the weight of the plane
may
sink a little, then soft field take off and landing techniques are in
order
(yoke full aft when on ground and prop is turning).
See my other postings on the technique.

Allen

See earlier message of mine on landing on grass, but one should always
know the soil of the intended grass runway and taxi with the yoke full
back.

Even when taxiing back after landing into a 30K headwind?

Matt

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:25:46 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:

See earlier message of mine on landing on grass, but one should always
know the soil of the intended grass runway and taxi with the yoke full
back.

Even when taxiing back after landing into a 30K headwind?

30 knot head wind doesn't reduce the weight on the nose wheel on taxiing,
so yes, you still need yoke full aft, just less power,

Allen

A Lieberman wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:25:46 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:


See earlier message of mine on landing on grass, but one should always
know the soil of the intended grass runway and taxi with the yoke full
back.

Even when taxiing back after landing into a 30K headwind?


30 knot head wind doesn't reduce the weight on the nose wheel on taxiing,
so yes, you still need yoke full aft, just less power,

But when you are taxiing back after landing that 30 knot headwind is now
a 30 knot tailwind. Holding full up elevator with that strong a
tailwind will put a lot more weight on the nosewheel and may even flip
the airplane on its nose. You did learn proper control positioning for
taxiing in strong windds during your primary instruction didn't you?


Matt

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:47:11 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:

But when you are taxiing back after landing that 30 knot headwind is now
a 30 knot tailwind. Holding full up elevator with that strong a
tailwind will put a lot more weight on the nosewheel and may even flip
the airplane on its nose. You did learn proper control positioning for
taxiing in strong windds during your primary instruction didn't you?

Duh, good point :-)

Helps to read you did say taxiing back...

Allen

A Lieberman wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:47:11 GMT, Matt Whiting wrote:


But when you are taxiing back after landing that 30 knot headwind is now
a 30 knot tailwind. Holding full up elevator with that strong a
tailwind will put a lot more weight on the nosewheel and may even flip
the airplane on its nose. You did learn proper control positioning for
taxiing in strong windds during your primary instruction didn't you?


Duh, good point :-)

Helps to read you did say taxiing back...

Yes, and that is why I'm against teaching pilots to fly using techniques
that aren't required for the conditions. If you get a low-time pilot
all jazzed up thinking that he needs to treat every grass strip like a
peat bog, then he's going to be focused on keeping that elevator back in
his gut as he taxis back. And as soon as he turns around after the
landing roll-out, he's going to start moving like a banshee on the hard
surface since he's using so much throttle to keep the nosewheel from
digging in. Then he'll back off the throttle to slow down since the
field isn't really soft. However, dollars to donuts he won't think to
simultaneously release the nosewheel. Once the airflow from the prop is
gone and not offseting the tail wind, bad things can happen.

That is why I'm fairly adamant that a pilot should fly the conditions
that exist, not some hypothetical condition that is likely to exist less
than 5% of the time, which is probably about how often a grass field is
also a soft field. And you can almost always find out when that 5%
occurs by either watching the weather or calling ahead to the field.


Matt