IFR logging question - is this legal?

Robert M. Gary wrote


Jose wrote:
In IMC, the pilot flying may keep the hood on, and thus a safety pilot
would be required. The pilot flying would then log this as simulated
instrument flight, even though he is in actual.

So your argument is that actual IMC is "simulated instrument flight"?
Sounds like you'd have to be a real Perry Mason to argue that.

Yeah, I also think that argument is full of BS.

Bob Moore
ATP FI

"Jose" wrote in message
. com...
91.109
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument
flight unless-

In IMC, the pilot flying may keep the hood on, and thus a safety pilot
would be required. The pilot flying would then log this as simulated
instrument flight, even though he is in actual.


If the fllight is in IMC, then....
1) VFR flight is not legal, therefore...
2) Flight is conducted under IFR.

So, Pilot in Command must either hold an IR, or be a pilot qualifed to fly
the A/C, with a CFII in the other seat (NOT a safety pilot, not the same
thing).

If you are in IMC, why would you need a hood anyway?

If the fllight is in IMC, then....
1) VFR flight is not legal, therefore...
2) Flight is conducted under IFR.

So, Pilot in Command must either hold an IR, or be a pilot qualifed to fly
the A/C, with a CFII in the other seat (NOT a safety pilot, not the same
thing).

True enough, but misses a sliver.

If you are in IMC, why would you need a hood anyway?

If you are a VFR only pilot, and want to log some instrument PIC time,
and conditions are IMC, you would need the hood to comply with
91.109(b). You could not BE PIC, but you do not need a CFII either.
You can have an instrument rated safety pilot BE PIC while you, as sole
manipulator, log PIC time. You need IR pilot (who also happens to be
the safety pilot) as PIC for the flight to be legal IFR, and you need
the safety pilot (who also happens to be the PIC) to be a crew member
because when you have the hood on, you need somebody to look outside.
This is regardless of whether you are in IMC or VMC. Clearly in VMC,
even IFR, the safety pilot keeps metal from being bent. In IMC, if the
pilot flying is under the hood, he cannot see that it is IMC (and
separation is provided) nor can he see when he breaks in and out of the
clouds (and separation is no longer provided, thus requiring the safety
pilot). So, in either case, as long as the pilot flying is under the
hood, a safety pilot is required, =and= the pilot flying can log PIC
time. If the pilot flying takes the hood off, he can no longer log PIC
time, which may give him incentive to stay hooded.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Dave S wrote:
But he IS a required crewmember. He's required to be there to operate
under the IFR clearance.

The operation you decribed does not require more than one pilot by
regulation. Flying under the hood in VMC requires more than one pilot
by regulation. Once you don't need the hood, you don't need more than
one pilot.

61.51(e)(1)
(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of
an^M
aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type^M
certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight
is^M
conducted.^M


-Robert, CFII