Calls on the radio

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Peter Duniho" wrote:

[snip]
Of course you did. You certainly didn't state any sort of actual
reliable
method for determining an answer to the original question.

One thing you can do is look at the airport diagram (available at
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp)

That's an excellent point. That reference is a reliable place to find the
information originally asked for, and the airport diagrams are now available
in the A/FD as well as in the FLIP charts where they always were.

For that matter, the A/FD has the correct name to use printed in the
"Communications" section. Now that you mention it, I'm a little puzzled as
to why this thread exists at all. Obviously, I (along with apparently
everyone else) have internalized the information in the A/FD so thoroughly
that I (along with everyone else) forgot that they print the correct name to
use in there?

I mean, the original poster even seems to be referencing the A/FD
specifically (though he wrote "AD", I agree with Jose that it's a good guess
he really meant A/FD). How did this question even come up, when the correct
information is right there?

I think that collectively, the entire newsgroup needs to go sit in the
corner with our dunce caps on. Thanks Bob.

In the case of Monroe County Airport, the airport diagram indicates
the tower name is Bloomington Tower.

As does the A/FD entry.

Note that at least one tower I know will answer to different names
(KBED's diagram indicates Hanscom tower, but they answer to Bedford
tower as well).

I imagine that pretty much any tower will answer to pretty much any radio
call on their frequency, regardless of what you call them, as long as you're
polite anyway. I'm sure that Paine Tower, for example, will respond to
Everett Tower, Snohomish County Tower, and Snohomish Tower. They will
probably tell you the correct designation (Paine) in their response, but no
real harm will come from using the wrong name.

Pete

I mean, the original poster even seems to be referencing the A/FD
specifically (though he wrote "AD", I agree with Jose that it's a good guess
he really meant A/FD). How did this question even come up, when the correct
information is right there?

Maybe the AF/D is not correct. I've come across errors in it before;
reality trumps theory.

One of the more irksome errors is the TPA - if it is not listed in the
AF/D, it's supposed to be "standard". Well, standards have changed, but
practices haven't, so (for example) GBR (Great Barrington) had the TPA
unlisted, I assumed 1000 feet, but the locals use the old standard of
800 feet. Another aircraft right where I was got my attention real
fast, but I couldn't find her.

The AF/D gets its info from the airport manager, who may not even know
to supply it (after all, it's standard - it's been 800 feet since he was
a little boy).

I'm certain that there are airports where the locals call it one thing,
but the Feds call it something else.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
. net...
Maybe the AF/D is not correct. I've come across errors in it before;
reality trumps theory.

While I agree with your observation, the A/FD is the best resource available
absent first-hand knowledge. There is no substitute for knowing what the
reality is, but if you can't get that, the A/FD is the next best thing.

One of the more irksome errors is the TPA - if it is not listed in the
AF/D, it's supposed to be "standard".

Different people fly different TPAs for different reasons, and there is no
FAR that requires them to do otherwise. While each airport may have one or
more recommended TPAs, it would be unwise to expect each and every aircraft
operating at that airport to be using the published TPA, whether accurate or
not.

[...]
I'm certain that there are airports where the locals call it one thing,
but the Feds call it something else.

Possible. For towered airports (which is the question here) I would guess
that's exceedingly uncommon. But even so, the A/FD is still a great
resource and the one pilots should be relying on if they don't have personal
first-hand knowledge or access to someone with that first-hand knowledge.

Pete

Jose wrote:




Maybe the AF/D is not correct. I've come across errors in it before;
reality trumps theory.

There's a lot of places to look if you care. If you're not sure just
use "tower."


One of the more irksome errors is the TPA - if it is not listed in the
AF/D, it's supposed to be "standard". Well, standards have changed, but
practices haven't, so (for example) GBR (Great Barrington) had the TPA
unlisted, I assumed 1000 feet, but the locals use the old standard of
800 feet. Another aircraft right where I was got my attention real
fast, but I couldn't find her.

TPA is non regulatory, a suggestion only. I never bother to look at
TPA. I'm going to 1000 AGL at every airport unless there's some reason
not to.

Peter,

I apologize, it was "A/FD" that I meant.

The purpose of my question was actually more based on something that
happened to me the other day.
I should have given a better example
I always fly from KBMG ( Bloomington, IN ) and it is true that the A/FD
states that it is "Blomington tower".
There's a small airport in the vicinity that is not a towered airport,
where I practice touch and goes sometimes. It is KBFR ( Befdord, IN ).
There's an AWOS that states "Grissom Municipal airport".
However most of the people when flying around call "Bedford traffic" and
I do too since this is what I had been told by my CFI.
If the AWOS doesn't work ( it has happened at that airport ), how would
I figure out that I should call "Bedford traffic" instead of "Grissom
traffic". There's usually noone at the Unicom on the ground to answer calls.

Of course, all of this is not a big deal and choosing one or the other
from the airport directory shouldn't make much difference usually but I
was just wondering how I could do the thing right at first.


Based on the multiple posts on this thread there doesn't seem to really
be a rule of thumb, so I guess and will try to choose the easier one to
pronounce until I hear something different from somone else.

Thanks




Peter Duniho wrote:

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...


In article ,
"Peter Duniho" wrote:

[snip]


Of course you did. You certainly didn't state any sort of actual
reliable
method for determining an answer to the original question.


One thing you can do is look at the airport diagram (available at
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp)



That's an excellent point. That reference is a reliable place to find the
information originally asked for, and the airport diagrams are now available
in the A/FD as well as in the FLIP charts where they always were.

For that matter, the A/FD has the correct name to use printed in the
"Communications" section. Now that you mention it, I'm a little puzzled as
to why this thread exists at all. Obviously, I (along with apparently
everyone else) have internalized the information in the A/FD so thoroughly
that I (along with everyone else) forgot that they print the correct name to
use in there?

I mean, the original poster even seems to be referencing the A/FD
specifically (though he wrote "AD", I agree with Jose that it's a good guess
he really meant A/FD). How did this question even come up, when the correct
information is right there?

I think that collectively, the entire newsgroup needs to go sit in the
corner with our dunce caps on. Thanks Bob.



In the case of Monroe County Airport, the airport diagram indicates
the tower name is Bloomington Tower.



As does the A/FD entry.



Note that at least one tower I know will answer to different names
(KBED's diagram indicates Hanscom tower, but they answer to Bedford
tower as well).



I imagine that pretty much any tower will answer to pretty much any radio
call on their frequency, regardless of what you call them, as long as you're
polite anyway. I'm sure that Paine Tower, for example, will respond to
Everett Tower, Snohomish County Tower, and Snohomish Tower. They will
probably tell you the correct designation (Paine) in their response, but no
real harm will come from using the wrong name.

Pete

In article , Pascal wrote:

There's a small airport in the vicinity that is not a towered airport,
where I practice touch and goes sometimes. It is KBFR ( Befdord, IN ).
There's an AWOS that states "Grissom Municipal airport".
However most of the people when flying around call "Bedford traffic" and
I do too since this is what I had been told by my CFI.
If the AWOS doesn't work ( it has happened at that airport ), how would
I figure out that I should call "Bedford traffic" instead of "Grissom
traffic". There's usually noone at the Unicom on the ground to answer calls.

Look at the beginning of the AFD, specifically the Directory Legend.
You'll see:

CITY NAME
Airport Name (Alternate Name)

It would seem that using the Airport Name (or alternate) from the AFD
is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. No one could fault you for that.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

Bob Noel wrote:

Look at the beginning of the AFD, specifically the Directory Legend.
You'll see:

CITY NAME
Airport Name (Alternate Name)

It would seem that using the Airport Name (or alternate) from the AFD
is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. No one could fault you for that.

I agree with Bob and a number of other posters that you should be
looking at the A/FD at flight planning time. You do flight plan, right?

Hm....let's see if "municipality name" v "airport name" works.

BJC. If you call "Boulder Tower" or "Broomfield Tower" you'll either
get ignored or laughed at. Boulder Airport doesn't have a tower, and
BJC is referred to as "Jeffco".

APA. The city of Centennial was just created a few years ago, but
prior to that, it was unincorporated county land, and the airport's been
there for ...um...30 years or so?

FTG. OK, call Denver Tower. You'll get laughed at. Denver Tower is
DIA (KDEN) 5 nm away. Or the closest town is Watkins. OK, fine, call
for Watkins Tower. No one will have the slightest idea what you're
talking about.

My favorite is GXY. Greely. Greel Weld. Weld County. You can hear
all three in the space of 60 seconds.

"Blanche Cohen" wrote in message news:eaimld$fin3

APA. The city of Centennial was just created a few years ago, but
prior to that, it was unincorporated county land, and the airport's been
there for ...um...30 years or so?

Longer. The Arapahoe County Airport (as it was then known) was well
established and had been in operation for some time [afaik] when I learned
to fly at BKF some 35 years ago.


FTG. OK, call Denver Tower. You'll get laughed at. Denver Tower is
DIA (KDEN) 5 nm away. Or the closest town is Watkins. OK, fine, call
for Watkins Tower. No one will have the slightest idea what you're
talking about.

Blanche, let me ask you about Front Range, and the area there, if I may.
Before I started learning to fly at Buckley, I had my very first small
airplane ride at a little airport called Sky Ranch, which was right in the
Watkins area, a bit east of BKF and north of US-6, as I recall, but it may
have been north of I-70. Is that the same place that has become Front
Range, or is it entirely different? Also, I seem to recall that E 6th Ave
coming out of Lowry toward Buckley was US-6, and that it continued, arrow
straight, eastward past Buckley well out into the prairie near Strasbourg
where it merged and became colocated with I-70. Looking at Google just now
I see a road configuration far different than what I remember. I know there
has been massive eastward development, and both I-225 and CO-470 have been
built (I-225 was just starting in the mid 70s) Is it just me (Who IS that
old guy in the picture?!?!), or have the roads really been shifted around
that much? Thanks.

Jon Woellhof, jump in here if you can -- ....................

John Gaquin asked about Sky Ranch Airport near Denver, Colorado.

Hi, John.

According to the database at
http://www.airfieldsdatabase.com/CO%20R1%20A-H.htm
Sky Ranch apparently last appeared on a 1977 Denver Sectional and was at
39°45'30" by 104°44'45". That puts it right where the old hangar a half mile
NE of the Univair building now is. I think the hangar still has a sign on it
that says Sky Ranch. The hangar is 2.1 miles NW of the I-70 C-470
intersection and about 3.5 miles NNE of Buckley (KBKF). It's 7.7 miles WNW
of Watkins.

Front Range (KFTG) is about 3 miles NE of Watkins.

Things certainly have changed in this area. I used to watch jets take off
from Lowry. Now it's mostly a residential area. Our old training building is
a school. Buckley is now an Air Force Base. It was Navy then. What was it
when we were at Lowry? An Air Force Station, I think. And would you believe
that Longmont is no longer 2V2? It's now KAMR and has two 8000 foot runways.
Just kidding. Front Range has the two 8000 foor runways -- and a tower.

I don't recall US6 continuing straight east and intersecting I-70. You might
be thinking of Quincy. It passes south of Buckley and continues east mostly
straight until it runs into a county road about 7 miles south of Strasburg.

Come out and we'll visit all the old places. We can even ride our bikes up
Mount Evans, if you want!

Jan

"Jon Woellhaf" wrote in message news:mO6dnci-

Sky Ranch apparently last appeared on a 1977 Denver Sectional and was at

Thanks for the info, Jon. So, Sky Ranch, too, has disappeared. The list of
things I remember that no longer exist is becoming long and distinguished.
:-) But I did note on Google Earth that the hangar we used to keep the Aero
Club planes in at Buckley appears to still be there -- hard to believe, as
it was quite old in 1971. Perhaps they've replaced it with one that looks
similar from above. That hangar was marvelous - old wood structure, walk in
and get overwhelmed with the aromas of old dust, oil, and solvent. Just
breathing the air could create aviators! I should think that today it would
probably be declared "hazardous" by some Federal acronym.


Things certainly have changed in this area. I used to watch jets take off
from Lowry. Now it's mostly a residential area. Our old training building
is a school. Buckley is now an Air Force Base. It was Navy then. What was
it when we were at Lowry? An Air Force Station, I think.

I knew that Lowry had closed. I guess that was some few years ago now.
During the time we were at Lowry and I was learning to fly, Buckley was an
ANG base. I remember that training flights from several military bases
would use BKF as an x-c destination, particularly on Fridays in winter.
Amazing how many of those aircraft developed mech write-ups on late Friday
afternoon in Denver. Equally amazing was the fact that so many of these
guys "just happened" to carry their skis along with them on x-c trips!
Hmmmmm.........


I don't recall US6 continuing straight east and intersecting I-70.

I'm sure you're right. When I was going to Buckley, as you left Lowry on 6th
Ave, once you got past -- what? Peoria maybe? -- it was all prairie, except
for where they were just starting the I225 construction.