TSA training requirements for CFIs

An instructor must keep a copy of the documents for five years that are
used to prove citizenship or make an endorsement in both the
instructor's logbook, or other record used by the instructor to record
flight student endorsements, and the student's logbook with the
following:....(endorsement example)

The sentences are structured poorly (what else do you expect from
lawyers) but I read it thusly (emphasis mine):

An instructor must keep:
a copy of the documents (for five years) that are used to prove citizenship

=OR=

make an endorsement in...

both the instructor's logbook,
(or other record used by the instructor to record flight student
endorsements,)

and the student's logbook

WITH the following:....(endorsement example)

That said... were I the CFI, I would certainly photograph my student's
passports, driver licenses, and any other information I thought the TSA
might fault me for not having. If this generates a political backlash,
so much the better.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
An instructor must keep a copy of the documents for five years that are
used to prove citizenship or make an endorsement in both the
instructor's logbook, or other record used by the instructor to record
flight student endorsements, and the student's logbook with the
following:....(endorsement example)

Here is where it further says "OR" keep a copy of student ID.
http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/checklist.pdf

I don't read it anything like that. The "OR" the link is refering to is
the ID used to prove citzenship. There is no requirement to keep
anything else (like DL).

-Robert

Emily wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
TRA wrote:
What records about my students do I need to keep for the
TSA? I know what the FAA wants.

Assuming you are a U.S. citizen-only CFI (you would have done more with
the TSA if you were authorized to teach non-citizens)
What complete and utter bull****. Does the TSA really think some CFI's
aren't capable of understanding security enough to teach non-citizens?

I'm not sure what you are talking about. If you want to teach foreign
students you need to register with the TSA to establish an online
account so you can assign students to yourself. No additional training
is required. You do need to have a very short interview by the FSDO and
bring your passport.

-Robert

Clay wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
BTW: Self endorsement is ok for CFIs to certify either their initial
TSA training (the on-line training) or their recurrent training (which
requires meeting the airport manager, etc).

-Robert

Since I fly out of several differnt airports, does that mean I have to
meet with the every airport manager?

Yes, and every airport manager you overfly as well. I'm not saying the
rules make any sense, I'm just reporting what the recurrent training of
the TSA requires.

-Robert

Insanity!!!!

he's yankin your chain

"Clay" wrote in message
oups.com...

Insanity!!!!

BTIZ wrote:
he's yankin your chain

Probably so, but these days, who knows.
So many rules are "Catch 22".

On 16 Aug 2006 12:46:47 -0700, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:


TRA wrote:
What records about my students do I need to keep for the
TSA? I know what the FAA wants.

Assuming you are a U.S. citizen-only CFI (you would have done more with
the TSA if you were authorized to teach non-citizens) you only need to
keep a copy of their proof of U.S. citizenship (passport) or a log book
endorsement that you validated it.

does a double-take

Non-citizens? What has US citizenship got to do with taking flying
lessons? I'm a green card holder and hope to start flying training
before the end of the summer, and I can assure you that green card
holders are the equal of US citizens in all respects, except that we
can't vote or run for office - and the only reason we can't do those
is because the language in the relevant clauses in the Constitution
specifically refers to 'citizens'. Everywhere else in the Constitution
it refers to 'the people' - which SCOTUS has held to include permanent
residents, as well as citizens.

So any discrimination against permanent residents in flight training
would seem to me to violate the 'equal protection' clause. I presume
there's a missing 'or' - 'proof of US citizenship OR permanent
residence'. If it's a security thing... well to get a green card
you're thoroughly checked out - fingerprints, FBI, background checks
etc...

Mike
--
http://www.corestore.org
'As I walk along these shores
I am the history within'

You will need to be vetted by the TSA before you can begin flight
training for Private/Instrument or Multiengine ratings.

The unfortunate thing is that the vetting process is poorly understood
by most people who have to apply it. I'm not even sure if the TSA
understands it.

Mike Ross wrote:
On 16 Aug 2006 12:46:47 -0700, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:


TRA wrote:

What records about my students do I need to keep for the
TSA? I know what the FAA wants.

Assuming you are a U.S. citizen-only CFI (you would have done more with
the TSA if you were authorized to teach non-citizens) you only need to
keep a copy of their proof of U.S. citizenship (passport) or a log book
endorsement that you validated it.


does a double-take

Non-citizens? What has US citizenship got to do with taking flying
lessons? I'm a green card holder and hope to start flying training
before the end of the summer, and I can assure you that green card
holders are the equal of US citizens in all respects, except that we
can't vote or run for office - and the only reason we can't do those
is because the language in the relevant clauses in the Constitution
specifically refers to 'citizens'. Everywhere else in the Constitution
it refers to 'the people' - which SCOTUS has held to include permanent
residents, as well as citizens.

So any discrimination against permanent residents in flight training
would seem to me to violate the 'equal protection' clause. I presume
there's a missing 'or' - 'proof of US citizenship OR permanent
residence'. If it's a security thing... well to get a green card
you're thoroughly checked out - fingerprints, FBI, background checks
etc...

Mike
--
http://www.corestore.org
'As I walk along these shores
I am the history within'

Mike Ross wrote:
snip

So any discrimination against permanent residents in flight training
would seem to me to violate the 'equal protection' clause. I presume
there's a missing 'or' - 'proof of US citizenship OR permanent
residence'. If it's a security thing... well to get a green card
you're thoroughly checked out - fingerprints, FBI, background checks
etc...

Now you're confusing the TSA with an agency that makes regulations that
actually make sense. No, it's not missing an "or"...the rule
specifically stays that permanent residents are included in this.

Here's a link.

http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/
http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/#aliens

Please don't let this scare you away from learning to fly. Which I
guess is easy for me to say, since it's basically run me out of the
freelance CFI business.