Lessons learned from the Oregon tragedy

In article ,
Newps wrote:

Tennis shoes, no hat or gloves. There could have been no other outcome.

Sure there could have!
He walked the wrong way.
One mile in the opposite direction was a stocked fishing lodge,
according to the reports I have been reading.
It sounds as though he didn't scout the area in the week he stayed with
the car. (Hindsight, I know.)

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Newps wrote:

Tennis shoes, no hat or gloves. There could have been no other outcome.

Sure there could have!
He walked the wrong way.
One mile in the opposite direction was a stocked fishing lodge,
according to the reports I have been reading.
It sounds as though he didn't scout the area in the week he stayed with
the car. (Hindsight, I know.)

I'm not an outdoorsman, and never have been; but I've been reading the
additions to this thread each morning, with a sour expression on my kisser,
and this is one of the first posts that has made a lot of sense--scout the
area while you still can.

I don't watch scheduled TV, so last evening I finally did a quick web search
to learn a little more about this story. It appeared that they did have
some supplies, and that they did use them at least as well as could be
reasonably expected from the written advice that is routinely given. I
might add that a lot of the advice regarding staying with the "wreckage"
presumes that there is some reason that the wreckage might be found, and
that there may be injuries. Also, a lot of the advice was written before
most airplanes were painted white!

With respect to the clothing issues, it is true that they were
underequipped. However, having shopped for cold weather gear in an area
that doesn't receive cold weather, I am inclined to judge less harshly.
Those boots that were supposed to be the cat's pajamas can be annoying,
since you can't walk around outside as far as you planned, and the rest of
the outerwear that you used incorrectly may cause you to "catch your death";
but a bottle of wine and a long soak in the hot tub will probably cure all
that ails you. OTOH, in the wilderness, a lot of incorrectly recommended
clothing (or simply inexperience) is a severe handicap!

Peter

It seems that I forgot to read my post one last time after editing, with the
result that I left out the main point--my own unsuccessfull outfitting was
for a ski trip some years ago. (The poor choices and usage are only
annoying at a ski resort, but dissastrous in the wilderness.) The parapragh
sould have read:

----------

With respect to the clothing issues, it is true that they were
underequipped. However, having shopped for cold weather gear in an area
that doesn't receive cold weather, I am inclined to judge less harshly.
Those boots that were supposed to be the cat's pajamas can be annoying at a
ski resort, since you can't walk around outside as far as you planned, and
the rest of the outerwear that you used incorrectly may cause you to "catch
your death"; but a bottle of wine and a long soak in the hot tub will
probably cure all that ails you. OTOH, in the wilderness, a lot of
incorrectly recommended clothing (or simply inexperience) is a severe
handicap!

----------

I'm sorry about the way my post looked with the omission.

Peter

Ski clothes are NOT designed for wilderness survival, but
mobility and aerodynamics. Hunting and mountain climbing
clothes are designed to keep your body warm, dry and as a
layer system. Some hunting clothes are designed to be hard
to see, but visibility is enhanced with blaze vests and
mountain climbing stuff often has many bright colors so
climbers can be seen and identified by color.



"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
...
| It seems that I forgot to read my post one last time after
editing, with the
| result that I left out the main point--my own
unsuccessfull outfitting was
| for a ski trip some years ago. (The poor choices and
usage are only
| annoying at a ski resort, but dissastrous in the
wilderness.) The parapragh
| sould have read:
|
| ----------
|
| With respect to the clothing issues, it is true that they
were
| underequipped. However, having shopped for cold weather
gear in an area
| that doesn't receive cold weather, I am inclined to judge
less harshly.
| Those boots that were supposed to be the cat's pajamas can
be annoying at a
| ski resort, since you can't walk around outside as far as
you planned, and
| the rest of the outerwear that you used incorrectly may
cause you to "catch
| your death"; but a bottle of wine and a long soak in the
hot tub will
| probably cure all that ails you. OTOH, in the wilderness,
a lot of
| incorrectly recommended clothing (or simply inexperience)
is a severe
| handicap!
|
| ----------
|
| I'm sorry about the way my post looked with the omission.
|
| Peter
|
|
|

Also, ski clothes are designed to keep you cool as your
exercise very hard on the down hill runs.



"Jim Macklin" wrote
in message ...
| Ski clothes are NOT designed for wilderness survival, but
| mobility and aerodynamics. Hunting and mountain climbing
| clothes are designed to keep your body warm, dry and as a
| layer system. Some hunting clothes are designed to be
hard
| to see, but visibility is enhanced with blaze vests and
| mountain climbing stuff often has many bright colors so
| climbers can be seen and identified by color.
|
|
|
| "Peter Dohm" wrote in message
| ...
|| It seems that I forgot to read my post one last time
after
| editing, with the
|| result that I left out the main point--my own
| unsuccessfull outfitting was
|| for a ski trip some years ago. (The poor choices and
| usage are only
|| annoying at a ski resort, but dissastrous in the
| wilderness.) The parapragh
|| sould have read:
||
|| ----------
||
|| With respect to the clothing issues, it is true that they
| were
|| underequipped. However, having shopped for cold weather
| gear in an area
|| that doesn't receive cold weather, I am inclined to judge
| less harshly.
|| Those boots that were supposed to be the cat's pajamas
can
| be annoying at a
|| ski resort, since you can't walk around outside as far as
| you planned, and
|| the rest of the outerwear that you used incorrectly may
| cause you to "catch
|| your death"; but a bottle of wine and a long soak in the
| hot tub will
|| probably cure all that ails you. OTOH, in the
wilderness,
| a lot of
|| incorrectly recommended clothing (or simply inexperience)
| is a severe
|| handicap!
||
|| ----------
||
|| I'm sorry about the way my post looked with the omission.
||
|| Peter
||
||
||
|
|

Peter Dohm wrote:



With respect to the clothing issues, it is true that they were
underequipped. However, having shopped for cold weather gear in an area
that doesn't receive cold weather, I am inclined to judge less harshly.
Those boots that were supposed to be the cat's pajamas can be annoying,
since you can't walk around outside as far as you planned, and the rest of
the outerwear that you used incorrectly may cause you to "catch your death";
but a bottle of wine and a long soak in the hot tub will probably cure all
that ails you. OTOH, in the wilderness, a lot of incorrectly recommended
clothing (or simply inexperience) is a severe handicap!


You don't need giant muk luks. A good hiking boot would have been a
tremendous asset. Hunting boots would have been better yet and snow
boots the best, With tennis shoes his feet were frozen 10 minutes after
he left the car. Any hat that covers the ears would have been a huge
difference. Any mittens or gloves likewise. To drive into the
mountains without those was reckless. To leave the car without those
was a death sentence.

With respect to the clothing issues, it is true that they were
underequipped. However, having shopped for cold weather gear in an area
that doesn't receive cold weather, I am inclined to judge less harshly.
Those boots that were supposed to be the cat's pajamas can be annoying,
since you can't walk around outside as far as you planned, and the rest
of
the outerwear that you used incorrectly may cause you to "catch your
death";
but a bottle of wine and a long soak in the hot tub will probably cure
all
that ails you. OTOH, in the wilderness, a lot of incorrectly
recommended
clothing (or simply inexperience) is a severe handicap!


You don't need giant muk luks. A good hiking boot would have been a
tremendous asset. Hunting boots would have been better yet and snow
boots the best, With tennis shoes his feet were frozen 10 minutes after
he left the car. Any hat that covers the ears would have been a huge
difference. Any mittens or gloves likewise. To drive into the
mountains without those was reckless. To leave the car without those
was a death sentence.

All agreed, having learned a little from my ignorance years ago, except
possibly the last item. If the car was white, or any earth tone, then I
suspect that all bets may be off. :-(

Peter

If your car is white or brown or green, carry a blaze orange
or lime green space blanket and use it as a car cover, will
help keep the warmer at night and really stand out in the
day time.



"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
news:PoYeh.1113$U6.953@bigfe9...
|
| With respect to the clothing issues, it is true that
they were
| underequipped. However, having shopped for cold
weather gear in an area
| that doesn't receive cold weather, I am inclined to
judge less harshly.
| Those boots that were supposed to be the cat's pajamas
can be annoying,
| since you can't walk around outside as far as you
planned, and the rest
| of
| the outerwear that you used incorrectly may cause you
to "catch your
| death";
| but a bottle of wine and a long soak in the hot tub
will probably cure
| all
| that ails you. OTOH, in the wilderness, a lot of
incorrectly
| recommended
| clothing (or simply inexperience) is a severe
handicap!
|
|
| You don't need giant muk luks. A good hiking boot would
have been a
| tremendous asset. Hunting boots would have been better
yet and snow
| boots the best, With tennis shoes his feet were frozen
10 minutes after
| he left the car. Any hat that covers the ears would
have been a huge
| difference. Any mittens or gloves likewise. To drive
into the
| mountains without those was reckless. To leave the car
without those
| was a death sentence.
|
| All agreed, having learned a little from my ignorance
years ago, except
| possibly the last item. If the car was white, or any
earth tone, then I
| suspect that all bets may be off. :-(
|
| Peter
|
|

You don't need giant muk luks. A good hiking boot would have been a
tremendous asset. Hunting boots would have been better yet and snow
boots the best, With tennis shoes his feet were frozen 10 minutes after
he left the car. Any hat that covers the ears would have been a huge
difference. Any mittens or gloves likewise. To drive into the
mountains without those was reckless. To leave the car without those
was a death sentence.

I just started trying to ID the road he was one and the one thing I
noted was that I-5 was nearby. Why would he leave I-5 except in a
city/town setting?

Ron Lee

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 20:29:50 GMT, (Ron Lee) wrote:

You don't need giant muk luks. A good hiking boot would have been a
tremendous asset. Hunting boots would have been better yet and snow
boots the best, With tennis shoes his feet were frozen 10 minutes after
he left the car. Any hat that covers the ears would have been a huge
difference. Any mittens or gloves likewise. To drive into the
mountains without those was reckless. To leave the car without those
was a death sentence.

I just started trying to ID the road he was one and the one thing I
noted was that I-5 was nearby. Why would he leave I-5 except in a
city/town setting?

Paper said they'd missed their exit to the road going to the coast and left I-5
thinking they'd found an alternate route.

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 20:25:44 GMT, in rec.aviation.piloting John Ousterhout
wrote:

] It appears that Get-there-itis caused Kim to keep going long past the
] point where he should have turned back. Regardless of what he saw on the
] map or other navigation device the road and weather conditions were
] shouting "TURN BACK". Yet as conditions worsened he passed up several
] opportunities to turn back.
]
] James Kim's poor judgment to not turn back was the probable cause of
] this tragedy.

Another factor was the unknown vandal who cut off the lock and opened the gate
to a road normally closed during the winter.

Ron Wanttaja