Procedure for calculating weight and balance

Neil Gould wrote:
You are presenting yet another absurd scenario that has no relation to the
reality of flying. Nobody flying a real plane will "forget" about trim set
near the limits of it's travel, because the control forces are a constant
reminder.

Umm. Nobody *hand* flying should in theory forget about trim setting.
(We all know the problems that can be caused by autopilots or FBW
systems mucking with the trim behind a pilot's back ;-)

Of course, sometimes pilots *do* forget... thus the number of take-off
accidents caused by the trim being in the wrong place. Yes, at the
last second they feel the extra control force coming in, but it's too
late.

Kev

Kev wrote:


Umm. Nobody *hand* flying should in theory forget about trim setting.


(We all know the problems that can be caused by autopilots or FBW
systems mucking with the trim behind a pilot's back ;-)

In the types of planes we're talking about here the autopilot doesn't
actuate the trim. The STEC's will even tell you that you need to trim
and in which direction.



Of course, sometimes pilots *do* forget... thus the number of take-off
accidents caused by the trim being in the wrong place. Yes, at the
last second they feel the extra control force coming in, but it's too
late.

Maybe in jets or King Air's but not spam cans.

Newps writes:

In the types of planes we're talking about here the autopilot doesn't
actuate the trim.

I'm talking about all types of planes. Not everyone flies a tin can.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Recently, Mxsmanic posted:

Newps writes:

In the types of planes we're talking about here the autopilot doesn't
actuate the trim.

I'm talking about all types of planes. Not everyone flies a tin can.

You only refer to exceptions to justify your errors in understanding. For
example, if you were genuinely concerned about "control authority", you
would have studied weight & balance long ago, as that *will* affect your
control authority in *any airplane*, whereas trim *will not* affect your
control authority *in any airplane*.

Neil

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
. net...
Recently, Mxsmanic posted:

Newps writes:

In the types of planes we're talking about here the autopilot doesn't
actuate the trim.

I'm talking about all types of planes. Not everyone flies a tin can.

My "tin can" has both pitch and trim servos.

Recently, BDS posted:

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
. net...
Recently, Mxsmanic posted:

Newps writes:

In the types of planes we're talking about here the autopilot
doesn't actuate the trim.

I'm talking about all types of planes. Not everyone flies a tin
can.

My "tin can" has both pitch and trim servos.

Please be careful about attributions... I'm not involved in this part of
your discussion!

Thanks!

Neil

Mxsmanic wrote:
Newps writes:


In the types of planes we're talking about here the autopilot doesn't
actuate the trim.


I'm talking about all types of planes. Not everyone flies a tin can.

No you're not. You were talking about a Baron and the rest of us are
talking about the types we specifically fly. You only bring up
everything else when you've been proven wrong. As usual.

Newps wrote:
Kev wrote:
Of course, sometimes pilots *do* forget... thus the number of take-off
accidents caused by the trim being in the wrong place. Yes, at the
last second they feel the extra control force coming in, but it's too
late.

Maybe in jets or King Air's but not spam cans.

Unclear. What are you claiming doesn't happen in small planes? No
out-of-trim takeoff accidents? Obviously that's incorrect. That
pilots notice the mistake in time to prevent the accident? Also
obviously not the case. That jets can't feel control forces?

Heck, think of all the times a pilot tries to take off with the
control-locks in place. If they realized what was happening in time
(and took action), there'd be no such accidents.

Kev

Kev wrote:

Newps wrote:

Kev wrote:

Of course, sometimes pilots *do* forget... thus the number of take-off
accidents caused by the trim being in the wrong place. Yes, at the
last second they feel the extra control force coming in, but it's too
late.

Maybe in jets or King Air's but not spam cans.


Unclear. What are you claiming doesn't happen in small planes?

I can set the trim fully up or down in my Bonanza and the 182 I had
before that and take off or land just fine. It's no fun but the plane
is not out of control.

Recently, Kev posted:

Neil Gould wrote:
You are presenting yet another absurd scenario that has no relation
to the reality of flying. Nobody flying a real plane will "forget"
about trim set near the limits of it's travel, because the control
forces are a constant reminder.

Umm. Nobody *hand* flying should in theory forget about trim setting.
(We all know the problems that can be caused by autopilots or FBW
systems mucking with the trim behind a pilot's back ;-)

When trim is changed, the flight condition changes. There are many clues
about trim settings that the conscious pilot can note, especially when the
trim is set near the limits of its travel. It really doesn't matter
whether the aircraft is FBW, autopilot, or hand-flown.

Of course, sometimes pilots *do* forget... thus the number of take-off
accidents caused by the trim being in the wrong place.

This is a matter of making an error in the pre-flight checklist. It has
nothing to do with the mechanics of trim.

Neil