Tweaking the throttle on approach

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

If not aligned at the threshold in a real plane, you should go around.
You should strive to become aligned with the centerline soon after
turning onto final, and then hold it there. It can be done with
practice. Don't forget you'll need a crab angle to take care of
crosswind.

I'm pretty sure I've seen videos of real pilots (in small aircraft) turning to
align with the runway _after_ the threshold, but I suppose that just because
they do it doesn't make it a smart idea.

I may have misunderstood your earlier post about being misaligned when
crossing the threshold. I originally thought you meant that you were
not positioned over the centerline (bad), but maybe you meant that
your airplane's centerline was not parallel to the runway centerline.
If so, then that is not unusual, or bad, but you MUST align before
touchdown. (Use rudder to straighten out, and opposite aileron to
prevent lateral drift)


In extreme cases I've slipped forward down to the glide path, which works very
well for descending rapidly without going to fast, but my problem there is
getting myself straight and aligned while exiting the slip.

Yes, straightening out after a slip seems to be harder in the sim than
in the real plane.

writes:

I may have misunderstood your earlier post about being misaligned when
crossing the threshold. I originally thought you meant that you were
not positioned over the centerline (bad), but maybe you meant that
your airplane's centerline was not parallel to the runway centerline.

It can be one or both, depending on how uncoordinated I am that day.

I'm rarely on the centerline when I turn at the last minute, but there is
still time to line up, usually. But being absolutely on the centerline and
parallel to it is less common, especially if there is any kind of wind. I
can't feel a crosswind in the sim, of course, but I can "feel" (note quotation
marks) the aircraft drifting to one side or otherwise moving by looking out
the window or watching the instruments (in low visibility). I'm so-so at
correcting for that.

If MSFS is configured with 72 kt gusts at ground level, I just dial them down,
as I could never land with that wind in real life, anyway. (This is a known
problem on VATSIM, which for some reason will more than double the speed of
gusts if the wind is gusting.)

If so, then that is not unusual, or bad, but you MUST align before
touchdown. (Use rudder to straighten out, and opposite aileron to
prevent lateral drift)

That's what I try to do. I try to use both rudder and aileron unless I'm
extremely close to the runway, as I've read that using rudder alone is a Bad
Thing.

Yes, straightening out after a slip seems to be harder in the sim than
in the real plane.

There is probably a smooth way to do it, but I haven't learned it yet. If I'm
a thousand feet off the ground it doesn't matter much, but very close to the
runway it makes me nervous. So I might slip down to the pattern altitude but
not beyond. I've seen people slip practically to touchdown, though.

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On Mar 7, 12:12 am, Mxsmanic wrote:

I'm rarely on the centerline when I turn at the last minute, but there is
still time to line up, usually.

"turn at the last minute"? How long is your final approach leg? If
you're flying the traffic pattern, your ground track should be a
perfect rectangle with rounded corners, and in your Baron, your turn
from base to final should be completed about 3/4 mile out from the
threshold leaving you plenty of time to get stabilized on final. If
you turn substantially inside this point, you will have too little
time to stabilize your approach, and you should go around.

I can't feel a crosswind in the sim, of course, but I can "feel" (note quotation
marks) the aircraft drifting to one side or otherwise moving by looking out
the window or watching the instruments (in low visibility). I'm so-so at
correcting for that.

You can't feel a crosswind in a real plane either. It's the same as
in the sim, you just look forward out the window and check to see if
the ground is drifting by sideways, then correct for it by turning
slightly into the wind, so that you end up tracking exactly along the
runway's extended centerline.

If so, then that is not unusual, or bad, but you MUST align before
touchdown. (Use rudder to straighten out, and opposite aileron to
prevent lateral drift)

That's what I try to do. I try to use both rudder and aileron unless I'm
extremely close to the runway, as I've read that using rudder alone is a Bad
Thing.

When landing with a crosswind, the combined effects of rudder and
opposite aileron are needed to cause the plane to both (1) track the
centerline and (2) align it's long axis with the centerline. You need
to maintain this configuration (i.e., a slip) all the way to touchdown
(and beyond).

writes:

"turn at the last minute"? How long is your final approach leg?

When I'm in a rush, there isn't one. I approach the runway at an angle
(sometimes 90 degrees or more), and then turn to align with it as I pass over
it.

If you're flying the traffic pattern, your ground track should be a
perfect rectangle with rounded corners, and in your Baron, your turn
from base to final should be completed about 3/4 mile out from the
threshold leaving you plenty of time to get stabilized on final. If
you turn substantially inside this point, you will have too little
time to stabilize your approach, and you should go around.

In real life, I would. In the sim, it depends on what I'm trying to practice.
The sim gives you the luxury of short-circuiting anything that isn't directly
relevant to whatever exercise you've undertaken.

You can't feel a crosswind in a real plane either. It's the same as
in the sim, you just look forward out the window and check to see if
the ground is drifting by sideways, then correct for it by turning
slightly into the wind, so that you end up tracking exactly along the
runway's extended centerline.

So much the better, then. I thought it was something you would feel in a real
aircraft. I suppose if it's steady you wouldn't notice it.

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On Mar 11, 9:44 am, Mxsmanic wrote:

If you're flying the traffic pattern, your ground track should be a
perfect rectangle with rounded corners, and in your Baron, your turn
from base to final should be completed about 3/4 mile out from the
threshold leaving you plenty of time to get stabilized on final. If
you turn substantially inside this point, you will have too little
time to stabilize your approach, and you should go around.

In real life, I would. In the sim, it depends on what I'm trying to practice.
The sim gives you the luxury of short-circuiting anything that isn't directly
relevant to whatever exercise you've undertaken.


In real life, sometimes you get asked to do a 'short approach'. This
would be probably the closest to what you're doing in the sim, so if
you are looking to real life for validation of what you do in the sim,
then there you go..

I have done some wacky, crazy approaches when asked to do a short
approach, usually with healthy doses of sideslip..


You can't feel a crosswind in a real plane either. It's the same as
in the sim, you just look forward out the window and check to see if
the ground is drifting by sideways, then correct for it by turning
slightly into the wind, so that you end up tracking exactly along the
runway's extended centerline.

So much the better, then. I thought it was something you would feel in a real
aircraft. I suppose if it's steady you wouldn't notice it.


You don't feel it because the air and the ground are not connected..
You have to look at the drift and correct for it. Quite easy to do
in practise, easier than trying to explain it :-)

chris writes:

In real life, sometimes you get asked to do a 'short approach'. This
would be probably the closest to what you're doing in the sim, so if
you are looking to real life for validation of what you do in the sim,
then there you go..

I know I've seen real aircraft do it; I couldn't remember what it was called.

Ironically, I'd probably turn it down in real life, as I tend to be extremely
prudent.

I have done some wacky, crazy approaches when asked to do a short
approach, usually with healthy doses of sideslip..

You're braver than I am.

You don't feel it because the air and the ground are not connected..

That makes sense. I guess there's no telltale squeal of tires.

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On Mar 11, 6:34 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:

I have done some wacky, crazy approaches when asked to do a short
approach, usually with healthy doses of sideslip..

You're braver than I am.


A short approach doesn't have to be crazy but some of us like it that
way :-)

You don't feel it because the air and the ground are not connected..

That makes sense. I guess there's no telltale squeal of tires.

There is no tyre noise until you touch down, of course, and you need
to look out the window to establish how much you correction you need
to apply..