high winds in Palm Spring

Blair wrote:

I'm a low timer (110 hours) scheduled to fly from Palo Alto to the
Bermuda Dunes in the Palm Springs area Thursday afternoon..... But
I'm concerned that it could mean strong gusts at ground level
and/or significant turbulence in the Cajon and Banning passes that
I'll be traveling through.

I live in Tehachapi, work in Mojave, and fly in this area often.
Winds will be an issue from Bakersfield through the Tehachapi pass
into the Antelope Valley (to Rosamond) and then again as you get near
Big Bear. I'd recommend NOT going through the Cajon/Banning passes,
but going around Big Bear to the north and east, and then cutting
south to Palm Springs. You'll still get bumped a bit, but it'll be
less than going through the passes - especially Banning.

I'd actually be more concerned about the winds tomorrow (Thursday)
just east of the windmill farm on the Tehachapi ridge - when winds are
over 20-25 kts, you get a pretty good rotor going, and even when there
are no clouds to point it out to you, it's there. I've gotten beat up
pretty good going back and forth over that ridge. Stay at least 2000
ft. over the ridge - going east, be at 9500 ft, and west, 8500 ft.
The winds in Mojave/Edwards are supposed to be in the 40-50 kt. range
- sometimes, it's relatively smooth, with 5 kt. gusts, and sometimes
it's bumpy with 20 kt. gusts. Check the Metars before you leave to
see what's up.

All that said, the turbulence is rarely more than light to moderate -
it's bumpy, and not a lot of fun, but hardly dangerous.

Although there is one pilot at work who got flipped inverted at 800
ft. AGL on downwind at Mojave by the rotor, but that's rare :-).

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2007

Unfortunately, the Palm Springs Thursday forecast is now:

Areas of blowing sand and blowing dust...Winds northwest 25 to 35 mph
with gusts to 50 mph. Visibility one quarter mile or less at times in
the evening.

That's sounding out of my comfort level. It's looking like a Friday
morning departure.

But good advice so far. Especially about the alternate route around
Big Bear.

Marc, regarding Tehachapi pass, how does that compare to Tejon pass?
My planned route was to follow 5 to Gorman and then turn to Palmdale.

Best.

Blair

Blair wrote:

weather turned to crap

Yeah, it's 55G65 here at Mojave now, and cold. Pretty miserable. 40
kts in Tehachapi with snow :-).

Marc, regarding Tehachapi pass, how does that compare to Tejon pass?
My planned route was to follow 5 to Gorman and then turn to Palmdale.

Tejon pass is lower and less windy (usually), as is western Antelope
Valley, but going over BFL/TSP/MHV/PMD rather than Gorman/PMD keeps
you closer to airports - there's nothing in the western Antelope
Valley. 8500 ft. over Tehachapi is higher than anything surrounding
you, and keeps you high enough to stay out of the worse turbulence
down lower - you're 3K ft. over the windmill ridge.

Plus, Tehachapi is prettier :-).

--
Marc J. Zeitlin

Marc J. Zeitlin wrote:

I'd recommend NOT going through the Cajon/Banning passes, but going
around Big Bear to the north and east, and then cutting south to Palm
Springs. You'll still get bumped a bit, but it'll be less than going
through the passes - especially Banning.

I'd agree with this suggestion for a smoother flight -- but be vigilant
near Adelanto for UAV activity. last year I attended a safety
seminar at the San Diego FSDO presented by an Edwards AFB test pilot
who pointed out the hazards in and around the R2508 complex. Adelanto
was mentioned for the high conentration of UAV activity with a strong
suggestion to keep your eyes outside the cockpit when you are in the
area. The footprint for their activty was significant.

Steve

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:55:46 -0700, Steve Schneider
wrote in :

last year I attended a safety
seminar at the San Diego FSDO presented by an Edwards AFB test pilot
who pointed out the hazards in and around the R2508 complex. Adelanto
was mentioned for the high conentration of UAV activity with a strong
suggestion to keep your eyes outside the cockpit when you are in the
area. The footprint for their activty was significant.

Did the Edwards AFB test pilot happen to mention why they don't
confine their UAV operations to their not insignificant expanse of
Restricted areas?

It's always a good idea to keep a sharp lookout for conflicting
traffic. The Air Force conducted a study that indicated that only 3
or 4 seconds out of every 20 seconds should be spent on piloting the
aircraft; the rest should be spent scanning.

Larry Dighera writes:

It's always a good idea to keep a sharp lookout for conflicting
traffic. The Air Force conducted a study that indicated that only 3
or 4 seconds out of every 20 seconds should be spent on piloting the
aircraft; the rest should be spent scanning.

That would depend on the flight conditions, would it not? I'm not sure what a
pilot over the Atlantic would be scanning for that would require 17 out of
every 20 seconds.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:55:46 -0700, Steve Schneider
wrote in :

last year I attended a safety
seminar at the San Diego FSDO presented by an Edwards AFB test pilot
who pointed out the hazards in and around the R2508 complex. Adelanto
was mentioned for the high conentration of UAV activity with a strong
suggestion to keep your eyes outside the cockpit when you are in the
area. The footprint for their activty was significant.

Did the Edwards AFB test pilot happen to mention why they don't
confine their UAV operations to their not insignificant expanse of
Restricted areas?


At the time he did not go into much detail, though I subsequently
learned that General Atomics has Predator-B/Altair R&D and production
facilities in the area. It is my understanding that much of the
UAV activity south of the R2508 complex is conducted by General
Atomics rather than by NASA or the Air Force -- though some of
the flights are likely for training NASA and AF UAV operators.

http://www.ga.com/news.php?subaction..._from=&ucat=1&
provided the following tidbit about GA's program:

... training UA crews in the unrestricted areas where
manufacturer airports typically reside. Under Altair’s
airworthiness certificate, the aircraft can continue
to be used for crew training, experimental flight testing
and marketing demonstrations at GA-ASI’s Gray Butte and
El Mirage air fields in Palmdale and Adelanto, CA.

I dug up some of the hardcopy materials I collected at the presentation
which reference http://www.edwards.af.mil/psafety as the Edwards AFB
source for current safety info and copies of the presentation materials.
Much to my suprise the link is not currenlty valid, though I did find
it cached on Google -- but none of the subsequent links off that page
seem to work. I had visited these pages after the presentation, and
there was a lot of good content. I hope they put them back online.

Steve

I have read this discussion here with delight because I am wanting to
make this flight over this Memorial day weekend. I studied the
different routes suggested here and plotted them in my flight software
(Voyager) they all seemed OK, but the high terrain and turbulence
concerns me a bit. In thinking about it I thought of maybe getting to
KUDD from KPAO by going the over the hills to the coast via Woodside
then roughly, Salinas, Paso, SLO, Santa Barbara, Burbank, Banning onto
Palm Springs and KUDD.

The terrain is 2500-3000MSL (unless I am not seeing something) and it
is a little longer but only by about 12-18 minutes. Am I crazy or
would this be a good route? It avoids the LAX bravo and seems OK.

I wish that I had more experience with this, but I guess that is why
there are forums where you can ask questions! =)

David
202hrs, VFR pilot, 2003 Piper Archer III

wrote:
I have read this discussion here with delight because I am wanting to
make this flight over this Memorial day weekend. I studied the
different routes suggested here and plotted them in my flight software
(Voyager) they all seemed OK, but the high terrain and turbulence
concerns me a bit. In thinking about it I thought of maybe getting to
KUDD from KPAO by going the over the hills to the coast via Woodside
then roughly, Salinas, Paso, SLO, Santa Barbara, Burbank, Banning onto
Palm Springs and KUDD.

The terrain is 2500-3000MSL (unless I am not seeing something) and it
is a little longer but only by about 12-18 minutes. Am I crazy or
would this be a good route? It avoids the LAX bravo and seems OK.

I wish that I had more experience with this, but I guess that is why
there are forums where you can ask questions! =)

David
202hrs, VFR pilot, 2003 Piper Archer III

I can't say anything about north of SLO, but the rest is no problem.

I would recommend at least 5500/6500 to get above the local traffic
and flight following as there is a lot of traffic going that route
and you will be crossing over several class C airports.

Going from Santa Barbara to Camarillo to Van Nuys is a couple of
minutes longer than Santa Barbara direct to Van Nuys, but more
scenic if there is no coastal fog.

Burbank doesn't have a VOR, but Van Nuys does.

Van Nuys to the Pomona VOR to the Banning pass is basically a straight
shot.

You can get through the Banning Pass at 5500/6500, but depending on
the winds and your tolerance for the bumps, you might want to go
through higher.

Unless you are really high, you will lose ATC once you enter the
pass and pick them up again at about the Indian Casino which is
the huge, tall building in the middle of nowhere that sticks out
like a sore thumb next to the freeway.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jim,

Thanks very much for the advice. The trip from Plao Alto to SLO is an
easy and nice flight. I will put the route you suggested into Voyager
and check it out. I have no problem going through Banning at
8500/9500, I just wanted a route that would have the most low
terrain. Personal preference on my part. Besides, I love flying
above the coast. And I do know the Indian casino building for ATC
pickup, I have driven by it on the freeway. BTW what do you fly?

David