high winds in Palm Spring

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:55:46 -0700, Steve Schneider
wrote in :

last year I attended a safety
seminar at the San Diego FSDO presented by an Edwards AFB test pilot
who pointed out the hazards in and around the R2508 complex. Adelanto
was mentioned for the high conentration of UAV activity with a strong
suggestion to keep your eyes outside the cockpit when you are in the
area. The footprint for their activty was significant.

Did the Edwards AFB test pilot happen to mention why they don't
confine their UAV operations to their not insignificant expanse of
Restricted areas?


At the time he did not go into much detail, though I subsequently
learned that General Atomics has Predator-B/Altair R&D and production
facilities in the area. It is my understanding that much of the
UAV activity south of the R2508 complex is conducted by General
Atomics rather than by NASA or the Air Force -- though some of
the flights are likely for training NASA and AF UAV operators.

http://www.ga.com/news.php?subaction..._from=&ucat=1&
provided the following tidbit about GA's program:

... training UA crews in the unrestricted areas where
manufacturer airports typically reside. Under Altair’s
airworthiness certificate, the aircraft can continue
to be used for crew training, experimental flight testing
and marketing demonstrations at GA-ASI’s Gray Butte and
El Mirage air fields in Palmdale and Adelanto, CA.

I dug up some of the hardcopy materials I collected at the presentation
which reference http://www.edwards.af.mil/psafety as the Edwards AFB
source for current safety info and copies of the presentation materials.
Much to my suprise the link is not currenlty valid, though I did find
it cached on Google -- but none of the subsequent links off that page
seem to work. I had visited these pages after the presentation, and
there was a lot of good content. I hope they put them back online.

Steve

I have read this discussion here with delight because I am wanting to
make this flight over this Memorial day weekend. I studied the
different routes suggested here and plotted them in my flight software
(Voyager) they all seemed OK, but the high terrain and turbulence
concerns me a bit. In thinking about it I thought of maybe getting to
KUDD from KPAO by going the over the hills to the coast via Woodside
then roughly, Salinas, Paso, SLO, Santa Barbara, Burbank, Banning onto
Palm Springs and KUDD.

The terrain is 2500-3000MSL (unless I am not seeing something) and it
is a little longer but only by about 12-18 minutes. Am I crazy or
would this be a good route? It avoids the LAX bravo and seems OK.

I wish that I had more experience with this, but I guess that is why
there are forums where you can ask questions! =)

David
202hrs, VFR pilot, 2003 Piper Archer III

wrote:
I have read this discussion here with delight because I am wanting to
make this flight over this Memorial day weekend. I studied the
different routes suggested here and plotted them in my flight software
(Voyager) they all seemed OK, but the high terrain and turbulence
concerns me a bit. In thinking about it I thought of maybe getting to
KUDD from KPAO by going the over the hills to the coast via Woodside
then roughly, Salinas, Paso, SLO, Santa Barbara, Burbank, Banning onto
Palm Springs and KUDD.

The terrain is 2500-3000MSL (unless I am not seeing something) and it
is a little longer but only by about 12-18 minutes. Am I crazy or
would this be a good route? It avoids the LAX bravo and seems OK.

I wish that I had more experience with this, but I guess that is why
there are forums where you can ask questions! =)

David
202hrs, VFR pilot, 2003 Piper Archer III

I can't say anything about north of SLO, but the rest is no problem.

I would recommend at least 5500/6500 to get above the local traffic
and flight following as there is a lot of traffic going that route
and you will be crossing over several class C airports.

Going from Santa Barbara to Camarillo to Van Nuys is a couple of
minutes longer than Santa Barbara direct to Van Nuys, but more
scenic if there is no coastal fog.

Burbank doesn't have a VOR, but Van Nuys does.

Van Nuys to the Pomona VOR to the Banning pass is basically a straight
shot.

You can get through the Banning Pass at 5500/6500, but depending on
the winds and your tolerance for the bumps, you might want to go
through higher.

Unless you are really high, you will lose ATC once you enter the
pass and pick them up again at about the Indian Casino which is
the huge, tall building in the middle of nowhere that sticks out
like a sore thumb next to the freeway.


--
Jim Pennino

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Jim,

Thanks very much for the advice. The trip from Plao Alto to SLO is an
easy and nice flight. I will put the route you suggested into Voyager
and check it out. I have no problem going through Banning at
8500/9500, I just wanted a route that would have the most low
terrain. Personal preference on my part. Besides, I love flying
above the coast. And I do know the Indian casino building for ATC
pickup, I have driven by it on the freeway. BTW what do you fly?

David

wrote:

Jim,

Thanks very much for the advice. The trip from Plao Alto to SLO is an
easy and nice flight. I will put the route you suggested into Voyager
and check it out. I have no problem going through Banning at
8500/9500, I just wanted a route that would have the most low
terrain. Personal preference on my part. Besides, I love flying
above the coast. And I do know the Indian casino building for ATC
pickup, I have driven by it on the freeway. BTW what do you fly?

David

8500 is the highest I've ever had to go to get a fairly smooth
ride, but if the Santa Ana's are blowing, I don't go near the
passes.

The winds have been calm and are forecast to stay that way for
a while.

I fly a 79 Tiger.


--
Jim Pennino

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Jim

A '79 Tiger ehhhhh, nice

I was wondering about the heat in Plam Springs and if there are any
problems getting out of there when it is relatively hot during the
day. I know that at Tahoe we keep a very close eye on the temp with
the airport being at 6K+. I would like to come back home in the
afternoon and the temps are forecast to be in the mid '90s. Do you
have any experience trying to leave daytime? I just will not try to
fly VFR at night through the mountains at this point in my career. I
also have the concern that the Archer has a 180hp engine. It gets me
out of Tahoe OK, but real slow.

Thanks

David

Jim

A '79 Tiger ehhhhh, nice

I was wondering about the heat in Plam Springs and if there are any
problems getting out of there when it is relatively hot during the
day. I know that at Tahoe we keep a very close eye on the temp with
the airport being at 6K+. I would like to come back home in the
afternoon and the temps are forecast to be in the mid '90s. Do you
have any experience trying to leave daytime? I just will not try to
fly VFR at night through the mountains at this point in my career. I
also have the concern that the Archer has a 180hp engine. It gets me
out of Tahoe OK, but real slow.

Thanks

David

wrote:
Jim

A '79 Tiger ehhhhh, nice

I was wondering about the heat in Plam Springs and if there are any
problems getting out of there when it is relatively hot during the
day. I know that at Tahoe we keep a very close eye on the temp with
the airport being at 6K+. I would like to come back home in the
afternoon and the temps are forecast to be in the mid '90s. Do you
have any experience trying to leave daytime? I just will not try to
fly VFR at night through the mountains at this point in my career. I
also have the concern that the Archer has a 180hp engine. It gets me
out of Tahoe OK, but real slow.

Thanks

Well, the altitude at UDD is 73 feet with a 5000 foot runway, and
with a temp of 104 according to the chart I'm looking at gives a
density altitude of about 3000 feet.

Getting off the ground shouldn't be a problem with an Archer.

UDD is about 20 some miles from the mouth of the pass so getting
to the 4000 feet or so minimum to get through the pass shouldn't
be a problem either.

All the times I've landed at PSP was before I bought the Tiger
and in a 172 and never had any problem getting to altitude
before the pass and PSP is a bit over 10 miles from the pass.

If it were the middle of the summer with temps well over 100
and flying something like a 152 at max gross, you might want
to depart to the south east to gain altitude then turn back
towards the pass, but the Archer should have no problem.

Going through Banning pass at night is no big deal. You just
follow the freeway through.


--
Jim Pennino

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