Cutting off shirt tails

In message , Wally
Samuelson writes
Does anyone have a clue where the tradition of cutting off the shirt tail of
a newly soloed student began? I believe it has its roots in the military in
WW1.

It was my tie when I soloed. It was then pinned to the notice board.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

"M. J. Powell" wrote:

In message , Wally
Samuelson writes
Does anyone have a clue where the tradition of cutting off the shirt tail of
a newly soloed student began? I believe it has its roots in the military in
WW1.

It was my tie when I soloed. It was then pinned to the notice board.

Mike

Solo traditions have varied over time. I've heard of the shirt-tail
clipping, but never seen it done. Clearly the tie cutting is from a
generation long gone, since you can go for a long time without seeing
a tie on a soloing student pilot these days.

When I soloed in a J-3 Cub (Palwaukee Airport, Wheeling IL, 12 May
1962), I got a handshake from my CFI, but no cuttings.

When I soloed in a T-37--first USAF solo--8 Sep 1964, Williams AFB
AZ), I had to buy my IP (Capt. Homer Lee) a bottle of booze. That was
the tradition. No cuttings.

Later when I was IPing myself at Willy, the tradition of a solo
dunking came into being. A cattle tank (about eight feet in diameter
and about two feet deep) was kept behind the flying squadron building.
Each class of students would paint it in class colors. When a student
solo'd, the would be dunked by their classmates. No cuttings there
either. Of course, there weren't any ties nor shirt tails on a K-2B
flying suit.

When students progressed to the T-38 and began wearing a G-suit, there
was the ripping off of the "Gooney Bird survival kit"--the pocket on
the left inside thigh of the flying suit which carried the orange hook
blade knife used to cut parachute lanyards on ejection. The G-suit had
a knife pocket and covered the one on the flying suit leg making it
extraneous. Wise pilots always removed the pocket themselves whenever
they got a new flying suit.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

AFROTC, 1976, soloed in the AF Pre-UPI private pilot's training
course. Shirt tail got cut off.


Just a thought as to origins:

there is a fairly old phrase that I know was in use in the 1920's and
the phrase was" "shirtailed kid". Meaning young, wet behind the ears
etc.

So perhaps losing the shirtail was a way of saying you've graduated
from "kid" to "adult".


--- Gregg
"Improvise, adapt, overcome."

Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Phone: (617) 496-1558

there is a fairly old phrase that I know was in use in the 1920's and
the phrase was" "shirtailed kid". Meaning young, wet behind the ears
etc.

Because he didn't wear it tucked in. Sign of a farm boy.

Or: "with his shirttail hanging out...."

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Ed Rasimus wrote:
Solo traditions have varied over time. I've heard of the shirt-tail
clipping, but never seen it done. Clearly the tie cutting is from a
generation long gone, since you can go for a long time without seeing
a tie on a soloing student pilot these days.


If they were waiting for me to wear a tie, I'd never have soloed. As it was, I
was told I wouldn't solo until I wore a nice (read "expensive") shirt. I
managed to solo in spite of wearing a colored t-shirt that day. My shirt tail
was cut off and after a few days reappeared on the wall of the pilot's lounge.

It now sported a picture of a biplane with an upside down scuba diver sticking
out of the cockpit with the words: "I'd Rather Be Diving" on it. I've got it
around the house here somewhere. One of these years I'll get around to framing
it and hanging it in my office.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

Clearly the tie cutting is from a
generation long gone, since you can go for a long time without seeing
a tie on a soloing student pilot these days.

Ed, I suspect he was talking about the military. My tie was amputated
when I soloed at Pensacola in 1950.

When I soloed a J-3 a few years earlier, it was at a small airport, I
was the only student, and there was no ceremony of any sort.

vince norris

In message , vincent p.
norris writes
Clearly the tie cutting is from a
generation long gone, since you can go for a long time without seeing
a tie on a soloing student pilot these days.

Ed, I suspect he was talking about the military. My tie was amputated
when I soloed at Pensacola in 1950.

When I soloed a J-3 a few years earlier, it was at a small airport, I
was the only student, and there was no ceremony of any sort.

No, it was at a civilian flying club in Southend, UK.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell