interesting moment yesterday on final

On Apr 29, 4:11 am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...



WEEEeeeeellll, come to think of it......yeah. Yeah, that pretty much
sums it up, for the most part. There being exceptions and all.

If you come to the playground, you should make nice with everyone
instead of telling them to all hold off, now that you're here and
all. Especially since some of them might not have radios.

Those already at the playground should make nice by properly accommodating
the aircraft on the straight-in approach.

I guess that depends on your definition of "properly". (Oh, Mr.
Hotshot wants to come in, and he's too important to join the circle
properly, like the rest of us. Better get out of his way!)

Having seen this discussion numerous other places, I conclude that it
will never be "settled".

I expect there are times when a straight-in is appropriate. In the
C172, C182, and the like that I fly, I can't imagine what that would
be (short of emergencies, but let's not clutter up the discussion).
Frankly, my total time is low enough that I'm not likely to do
anything not by the book, if I can help it.

In large airports that are still non-towered (after hours, etc.) you
might make a case, if you have a large aircraft. I don't know what
that case would be though.

In general, I view straight-ins the same way I view cutting in line at
a theater or whatever: there may be times, but in general it is at
least rude; more likely it can also be unsafe. It's "calling dibs",
and challenging others to accomodate you. There are too many
plausible situations where you won't be seen (necessary if the other
aircraft are NORDO). You could be too far away for someone turning
downwind to base or base to final to see.

wrote in message
oups.com...

I guess that depends on your definition of "properly". (Oh, Mr.
Hotshot wants to come in, and he's too important to join the circle
properly, like the rest of us. Better get out of his way!)

Having seen this discussion numerous other places, I conclude that it
will never be "settled".


I think you're right about that. There will always be those that believe
aircraft flying a full pattern have the right-of-way.

wrote in message
roups.com...

I guess that depends on your definition of "properly". (Oh, Mr.
Hotshot wants to come in, and he's too important to join the circle
properly, like the rest of us. Better get out of his way!)

Having seen this discussion numerous other places, I conclude that it
will never be "settled".


I think you're right about that. There will always be those that believe
aircraft flying a full pattern have the right-of-way.

I do not think ANYONE is saying that aircraft flying the proper full
pattern have right of way. Rather, they are saying it is more
appropriate is most circumstances, and in almost all cases, safer for
everyone involved.


Excellent timing from AOPA on this subject...
In my email within the past couple days I received this from AOPA:

"In his May 2003 AOPA Pilot feature, "Pattern Perfection," Thomas A.
Horne reviews preferred entries. "It's best to enter the downwind leg
of a nontowered airport's traffic pattern at midfield, on a 45-degree
interception angle. This gives you a good viewing perspective of all
legs of the pattern. You should be at pattern altitude (anywhere from
600 feet agl to 1,500 feet agl—check your airport reference for the
recommended altitude), and your downwind leg should be flown as close
as is comfortable for the airplane you're flying."

Here is a link to the full article:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...ttern0305.html


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

On May 5, 5:59 pm, Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:
wrote in message
roups.com...

I guess that depends on your definition of "properly". (Oh, Mr.
Hotshot wants to come in, and he's too important to join the circle
properly, like the rest of us. Better get out of his way!)

Having seen this discussion numerous other places, I conclude that it
will never be "settled".

I think you're right about that. There will always be those that believe
aircraft flying a full pattern have the right-of-way.

I do not think ANYONE is saying that aircraft flying the proper full
pattern have right of way. Rather, they are saying it is more
appropriate is most circumstances, and in almost all cases, safer for
everyone involved.

Thank you. I wasn't saying that. I just figured Steven was baiting
me. ;)

"Mike 'Flyin'8'" wrote in message
...

I do not think ANYONE is saying that aircraft flying the proper full
pattern have right of way.


No one in this thread is saying it explicitly, but they're certainly
implying it.



Rather, they are saying it is more
appropriate is most circumstances, and in almost all cases, safer for
everyone involved.


I've heard many say that, I've yet to hear anyone make a supporting case.



Excellent timing from AOPA on this subject...
In my email within the past couple days I received this from AOPA:

"In his May 2003 AOPA Pilot feature, "Pattern Perfection," Thomas A.
Horne reviews preferred entries. "It's best to enter the downwind leg
of a nontowered airport's traffic pattern at midfield, on a 45-degree
interception angle. This gives you a good viewing perspective of all
legs of the pattern. You should be at pattern altitude (anywhere from
600 feet agl to 1,500 feet agl-check your airport reference for the
recommended altitude), and your downwind leg should be flown as close
as is comfortable for the airplane you're flying."

Here is a link to the full article:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...ttern0305.html



Thomas A. Horne:

"Avoid straight-in finals. Yes, you can make any kind of pattern you want at
nontowered fields. But of all the transgressions against standard procedure,
the straight-in final may be the worst. Here you risk T-boning those who fly
standard patterns as they fly from base to final. This is why looking up and
down final is so important when navigating the base leg."

If T-boning occurs does it not mean the traffic flying from base to final
failed to yield the right-of-way to the traffic on final?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

If T-boning occurs does it not mean the traffic flying from base to final
failed to yield the right-of-way to the traffic on final?

Does it matter?

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Does it matter?


Yes.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Does it matter?


Yes.

How?

On Sat, 26 May 2007 15:33:27 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

If T-boning occurs does it not mean the traffic flying from base to final
failed to yield the right-of-way to the traffic on final?

No, in this case the writer is saying that the traffic on final
T-boned the the plane turning final from base.

"Cubdriver" usenet AT danford DOT net wrote in message
...

No, in this case the writer is saying that the traffic on final
T-boned the the plane turning final from base.


I know what the writer is saying. The traffic on final has the
right-of-way, T-boning cannot occur unless the traffic flying from base to
final fails to yield.