OT - the OT tag and the Re bug.

What of those readers that truncate long lines or as in your app's case
oddly truncate subject lines that have mulitple "OT:" in them? I'd think
that the multiple tree roots would be the more desirable consequence.

Those wouldn't be issues either.

Truncating: Avoiding the colon doesn't lengthen the line (except for the
first re. It merely keeps the original OT in the subject line. It
ensures that "OT" is not treated special.

My app doesn't "oddly trucnate subject lines". Other apps do when they
reply. Then =everybody's= app (including mine) gets multple subject
lines, defeating the point of a prepend. Check out prior threads which
started with OT and a colon, or watch the "OT: Eagle, not waddling"
thread develop and you'll see a new subject line appear without the OT
as soon as somebody replies to it with a "bad" reader.

I don't understand when multple tree roots would be better.

Jose
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Recently, Jose posted:

What of those readers that truncate long lines or as in your app's
case oddly truncate subject lines that have mulitple "OT:" in them?
I'd think that the multiple tree roots would be the more desirable
consequence.

Those wouldn't be issues either.

Truncating: Avoiding the colon doesn't lengthen the line (except for
the first re. It merely keeps the original OT in the subject line.
It ensures that "OT" is not treated special.

Truncated long lines and oddly truncated lines are not part of the same
behavior. I was referring to the larger issue of making subject lines
compatible with all readers and under all configurations.

My app doesn't "oddly trucnate subject lines".

I was referring to your reply to my post where I added an extra "OT:
(was..." and your reader posted only " OT - OT:" If your app didn't do
that, then you did for some reason that really escapes me. ;-)

I don't understand when multple tree roots would be better.

In the above example, a new subject line without any reference to the
topic was created, yet your reply appeared in the thread tree and below
the post to which you responded. IOW, the context was preserved even
though the subject had changed.

If the subject line contains the proper reference to the topic (e.g. two
thread tree roots with "Electric Car" in the subject line), then it is not
a big problem to follow the thread. Also, at least with OE multiple tree
roots only appear if one is hiding read messages regardless of the subject
line, so I see it as a consequence of the convenience of hiding read
messages rather than a bug in the way the reader works.

Neil

I was referring to the larger issue of making subject lines
compatible with all readers and under all configurations.

Of course that's impossible. Someone will program a bigger bug. But if
there is a known and common issue (the bug), and an easy fix, (avoid
colonized prepends), it's probably worth spreading and doing. Alas,
working around software will always be an issue.

I was referring to your reply to my post where I added an extra "OT:
(was..." and your reader posted only " OT - OT:" If your app didn't do
that, then you did for some reason that really escapes me. ;-)

Hmmm. I noticed that; I didn't notice that =my= app did it. Trying it
again... hmmm.. curiouser and curiouser. That's a bizzare one! I
guess my app =does= sometimes "oddly truncate subject lines". What does
=your= app do as a reply to your multicolon message (subject line below)?

OT - OT: (was: the OT tag and the Re bug.)

In the above example, a new subject line without any reference to the
topic was created, yet your reply appeared in the thread tree and below
the post to which you responded. IOW, the context was preserved even
though the subject had changed.

That it remained in the same tree is true even of the ordinary bug
posts, which are far more common. But when sorted by subject line, the
ordinary bug posts sort =outside= of the OT slot in the alphabet
(unless the base subject line starts with ot, like "Other pix"). My
bizzare bug preserved the prepend, so it still sorted under OT, where it
belongs.

If the subject line contains the proper reference to the topic (e.g. two
thread tree roots with "Electric Car" in the subject line), then it is not
a big problem to follow the thread.

No. The (minor) problem is for those who wish to screen OT posts which
have been duly labeled for this purpose with the prepend. As soon as
somebody responds with a "bad" reader, a stealth subject is created
which bypasses their "OT" filter. So, sooner or later, the OT prepend
is defeated. This would be true of other prepends too.

Also, at least with OE multiple tree
roots only appear if one is hiding read messages regardless of the subject
line, so I see it as a consequence of the convenience of hiding read
messages rather than a bug in the way the reader works.

Not hiding read messages is more inconvenient than seeing stealth
subject lines. At least for me.

Is there really a downside to avoiding a colon after a prepend?

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Recently, Jose posted:

I was referring to your reply to my post where I added an extra "OT:
(was..." and your reader posted only " OT - OT:" If your app
didn't do that, then you did for some reason that really escapes me.
;-)

Hmmm. I noticed that; I didn't notice that =my= app did it. Trying
it again... hmmm.. curiouser and curiouser. That's a bizzare one! I
guess my app =does= sometimes "oddly truncate subject lines". What
does =your= app do as a reply to your multicolon message (subject
line below)?

OT - OT: (was: the OT tag and the Re bug.)

My app (OE) retains the full line as submitted. Other examples in the
original thread suggest that OE may not be the only app that handles this
situation correctly.

Is there really a downside to avoiding a colon after a prepend?

I wouldn't say there is a downside, but who knows if that solves the
problem for all readers, or that some other reader anomalies won't create
the same kind of "problem" with other subject line content?

Neil

I wouldn't say there is a downside,

Then let's try it.

but who knows if that solves the
problem for all readers, or that some other reader anomalies won't create
the same kind of "problem" with other subject line content?

Nobody, until we try it. Colon cleansing for prepends!

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Thu, 31 May 2007 11:25:34 -0400, Jose wrote in :

... What does
=your= app do as a reply to your multicolon message (subject line below)?

OT - OT: (was: the OT tag and the Re bug.)

Neil is using Outlook Express (OE).

Once he replies to a post that has "" in it,
OE does nothing odd to the line.

Dudley also uses OE. You'll notice that when he
replied to the very first post about the eagle,
the "OT:" was replaced by "". That is the
OE method of handling prepends with a colon.

... Is there really a downside to avoiding a colon after a prepend?

I don't see a downside.

But everybody types according to their own taste.
The odds of getting everyone in r.a.p to generate
OE-safe subject lines and slim and none. ;o)

Marty
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Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups.

But everybody types according to their own taste.
The odds of getting everyone in r.a.p to generate
OE-safe subject lines and slim and none. ;o)

"This is my quest.... to follow that star, no matter how hopeless, no
matter how far!"

Besides, if it saves just =one= child....

Jose (onward Colon Crusade!)
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There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
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Recently, Martin X. Moleski, SJ posted:

On Thu, 31 May 2007 11:25:34 -0400, Jose
asked:

... Is there really a downside to avoiding a colon after a prepend?

I don't see a downside.

But everybody types according to their own taste.
The odds of getting everyone in r.a.p to generate
OE-safe subject lines and slim and none. ;o)

I suspect that Jose's interest has little to do with OE-safe subject
lines, as he is using some other newsreader. What's more, I don't have a
problem with how the subject lines appear in OE, so AFAIC, they are
already "safe". ;-)

I do agree that the chances of everyone in r.a.p. (or anywhere else on
usenet) generating subject lines that satisfy every newsreader's quirks
are between slim and none. ;-)

Neil

I suspect that Jose's interest has little to do with OE-safe subject
lines, as he is using some other newsreader.

Well, the thing is, OE-unsafe subject lines affect message and thread
appearance in all readers by affecting the underlying data.

Just remember, colons are unfit subjects.

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.