passed Commercial checkride yesterday!

"xyzzy" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 14, 12:34 pm, "gatt" wrote:

He says with pax and sufficient runway
he doesn't apply full power on takeoff until he reaches 40mph; that way,
they don't feel like they're being launched off a carrier deck or
something.

Ummm. what does he fly? I've NEVER flown an airplane that would give
anybody that impression.

182. His point is that the pax should only barely perceive the transition
from a stop to forward motion. Also, landings--pax shouldn't experience a
bump, bounce or balloon on landing; especially if they're skittish about
flying in the first place. Otherwise, it may be the last time they choose
to fly in a small airplane. If there's plenty of runway available, give
them a gentle start and roll out a little long rather than piling on the
brakes to exit early.

No jackrabbit starts or hard braking to exit the runway unless, of course,
it's necessary.

In a PA-28R, you feel the acceleration and torque as you start your takeoff
run. In a 182--he says--rear pax can feel like their asses are dragging the
ashpalt if you hold the nose too high in the flare whereas in the Arrow it's
not so bad, but it's much more difficult to keep the nose wheel off without
bouncing.

-c
(Also, he made the point much better than I am.)

On Jun 14, 1:42 pm, "gatt" wrote:
"xyzzy" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Jun 14, 12:34 pm, "gatt" wrote:

He says with pax and sufficient runway
he doesn't apply full power on takeoff until he reaches 40mph; that way,
they don't feel like they're being launched off a carrier deck or
something.

Ummm. what does he fly? I've NEVER flown an airplane that would give
anybody that impression.

182. His point is that the pax should only barely perceive the transition
from a stop to forward motion.

That's an interesting perspective but I'm not sure I agree. In my
experience nervous pax are more comforted the more airliner-like the
experience is, and airliners certainly take off with brisk
acceleration.

As a matter of fact I've taken two nervous pax. One was happy as soon
as he saw me using checklists because that made it professional-
looking and he didn't worry I was forgetting something important. The
other one had an interesting debrief, what he told me was that it
seemed too "floaty" taking off in a small plane, which after trying to
get what he means out of him, I think was related to the relatively
low airspeed, especially as compared with the winds, of the small
plane at liftoff time -- which would argue for trying to get speed up
ASAP, and rotating a ahigher speed than usual so the rotation is more
firm and airliner-like. Airliners feel like they are on rails when
they take off, small planes get bounced around more.

In a 182--he says--rear pax can feel like their asses are dragging the
ashpalt if you hold the nose too high in the flare whereas in the Arrow it's
not so bad, but it's much more difficult to keep the nose wheel off without
bouncing.

Well, Cessnas do all seem to flare at a higher deck angle than
pipers. I've been in the backseat of a 172 that was being landed in a
crosswind by a commercial pilot, and I can understand exactly what he
means. Pipers do land more airliner-like IMO.

Probably different pax experience it differently.

"xyzzy" wrote in message
ups.com...

Well, Cessnas do all seem to flare at a higher deck angle than pipers.
I've been in the backseat of a 172 that was being landed in a
crosswind by a commercial pilot, and I can understand exactly what he
means. Pipers do land more airliner-like IMO.

I haven't been in the back of a 172 since I was five, and the only times
I've been in a 182, I jumped out the door at 5,000 feet and watched it land
beneath me next to the drop zone. Definately something I want to do soon,
to better experience what passengers feel back there.

-Chris
Troutdale, OR

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:04:43 -0700, gatt wrote:

I jumped out the door at 5,000 feet and watched it
land beneath me next to the drop zone.

See? The point is that we should fly in a way that *doesn't* have
passengers that eager to jump out.

- Andrew

On Jun 15, 6:15 am, xyzzy wrote:
On Jun 14, 1:42 pm, "gatt" wrote:



"xyzzy" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Jun 14, 12:34 pm, "gatt" wrote:

In a 182--he says--rear pax can feel like their asses are dragging the
ashpalt if you hold the nose too high in the flare whereas in the Arrow it's
not so bad, but it's much more difficult to keep the nose wheel off without
bouncing.

Well, Cessnas do all seem to flare at a higher deck angle than
pipers. I've been in the backseat of a 172 that was being landed in a
crosswind by a commercial pilot, and I can understand exactly what he
means. Pipers do land more airliner-like IMO.

Must be that high wing low wing thing. A lot of the Cessnas I fly
have the front gear shock pumped right up so you have to be quite nose
high when you flare to avoid a 3 pointer or a nose wheel bounce.
Agree about Pipers though, with them its more a matter of getting into
ground effect and letting it settle in its own time.