Slow Flight

Slow flight is a skill. Crosswind landing is a skill. Exposure to long
trips and making difficult decisions under varying weather conditions
is experience. The right combination of skill and experience is what
makes a pilot "mature" and safe.



On Sep 8, 3:49 pm, Bob Fry wrote:
"Ol" == Ol Shy & Bashful writes:

Ol There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow
Ol flight at the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent
Ol accidents than 1000 hours of cruise speed flight.
. . .
Ol What are your thoughts?

Can't agree. The single best thing I did with an airplane to improve
my confidence and safety was fly a cross-country to Oshkosh from
California with a more experienced friend, each in our own airplane.

But others will agree with you. The point is that there are several
areas of aviation and flight that are important, and different people
will have different needs in those areas. Your students are probably
proficient in slow flight, that's good. How well would they do with a
long cross country and handling weather issues?

There are only so many hours of training to give, and the reality is
that a fresh pilot just receiving their PP-ASEL doesn't know
much. Perhaps the best thing an instructor can do is see that their
students understand their ignorance but also understand how they can
use their new license to improve.

--
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with
potatoes.
Douglas Adams

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:10:21 -0700, Andrew Sarangan
wrote:

Slow flight is a skill. Crosswind landing is a skill. Exposure to long
trips and making difficult decisions under varying weather conditions
is experience. The right combination of skill and experience is what
makes a pilot "mature" and safe.

I agree with that assessment to a point.

It works IF they have the judgmental ability make use of that skill
and experience. I've seen several pilots lose that ability and I've
seen some that never had it and even with over a 100 hours of training
were never going to be safe.

Roger (K8RI)

On Sep 8, 9:57 pm, "Roger (K8RI)" wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:10:21 -0700, Andrew Sarangan

wrote:
Slow flight is a skill. Crosswind landing is a skill. Exposure to long
trips and making difficult decisions under varying weather conditions
is experience. The right combination of skill and experience is what
makes a pilot "mature" and safe.

I agree with that assessment to a point.

It works IF they have the judgmental ability make use of that skill
and experience. I've seen several pilots lose that ability and I've
seen some that never had it and even with over a 100 hours of training
were never going to be safe.

Roger (K8RI)

Yeah. The old saying, "Attitude is Everything" applies here. I have
known pilots with skill and experience that were unsafe. They have too
much of one or more of the fatal attitudes: Machoism, Invincibility,
Anti-Authority, Resignation, or Impulsiveness. All of these things are
present in varying degrees in all of us, and some pilots have one or
more in spades. There's trouble on the way for those folks.
There's a psychological test to determine where we sit on
these things. We use it in our PPL groundschool to try to wake up the
dangerous ones. They need to know that their attitudes can kill them
regardless of skill or knowledge or experience.

Dan

On Sep 9, 10:57 am, wrote:
On Sep 8, 9:57 pm, "Roger (K8RI)" wrote:





On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:10:21 -0700, Andrew Sarangan

wrote:
Slow flight is a skill. Crosswind landing is a skill. Exposure to long
trips and making difficult decisions under varying weather conditions
is experience. The right combination of skill and experience is what
makes a pilot "mature" and safe.

I agree with that assessment to a point.

It works IF they have the judgmental ability make use of that skill
and experience. I've seen several pilots lose that ability and I've
seen some that never had it and even with over a 100 hours of training
were never going to be safe.

Roger (K8RI)

Yeah. The old saying, "Attitude is Everything" applies here. I have
known pilots with skill and experience that were unsafe. They have too
much of one or more of the fatal attitudes: Machoism, Invincibility,
Anti-Authority, Resignation, or Impulsiveness. All of these things are
present in varying degrees in all of us, and some pilots have one or
more in spades. There's trouble on the way for those folks.
There's a psychological test to determine where we sit on
these things. We use it in our PPL groundschool to try to wake up the
dangerous ones. They need to know that their attitudes can kill them
regardless of skill or knowledge or experience.

Dan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I was not aware that there was a psychological test for this. Can you
give pointers to where I can get more details?

On Sep 9, 9:40 pm, Andrew Sarangan wrote:
On Sep 9, 10:57 am, wrote:



On Sep 8, 9:57 pm, "Roger (K8RI)" wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:10:21 -0700, Andrew Sarangan

wrote:
Slow flight is a skill. Crosswind landing is a skill. Exposure to long
trips and making difficult decisions under varying weather conditions
is experience. The right combination of skill and experience is what
makes a pilot "mature" and safe.

I agree with that assessment to a point.

It works IF they have the judgmental ability make use of that skill
and experience. I've seen several pilots lose that ability and I've
seen some that never had it and even with over a 100 hours of training
were never going to be safe.

Roger (K8RI)

Yeah. The old saying, "Attitude is Everything" applies here. I have
known pilots with skill and experience that were unsafe. They have too
much of one or more of the fatal attitudes: Machoism, Invincibility,
Anti-Authority, Resignation, or Impulsiveness. All of these things are
present in varying degrees in all of us, and some pilots have one or
more in spades. There's trouble on the way for those folks.
There's a psychological test to determine where we sit on
these things. We use it in our PPL groundschool to try to wake up the
dangerous ones. They need to know that their attitudes can kill them
regardless of skill or knowledge or experience.

Dan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I was not aware that there was a psychological test for this. Can you
give pointers to where I can get more details?

I'll see if I can find it on the 'net somewhere. It
exists as paper here in the office, but I think it's copyrighted. Lots
of folks are interested in this sort of thing (they recognize the
traits) and if I knew where to find it they'd all be pleased.

Dan

On Sep 10, 6:54 am, wrote:
On Sep 9, 9:40 pm, Andrew Sarangan wrote:



On Sep 9, 10:57 am, wrote:

On Sep 8, 9:57 pm, "Roger (K8RI)" wrote:

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:10:21 -0700, Andrew Sarangan

wrote:
Slow flight is a skill. Crosswind landing is a skill. Exposure to long
trips and making difficult decisions under varying weather conditions
is experience. The right combination of skill and experience is what
makes a pilot "mature" and safe.

I agree with that assessment to a point.

It works IF they have the judgmental ability make use of that skill
and experience. I've seen several pilots lose that ability and I've
seen some that never had it and even with over a 100 hours of training
were never going to be safe.

Roger (K8RI)

Yeah. The old saying, "Attitude is Everything" applies here. I have
known pilots with skill and experience that were unsafe. They have too
much of one or more of the fatal attitudes: Machoism, Invincibility,
Anti-Authority, Resignation, or Impulsiveness. All of these things are
present in varying degrees in all of us, and some pilots have one or
more in spades. There's trouble on the way for those folks.
There's a psychological test to determine where we sit on
these things. We use it in our PPL groundschool to try to wake up the
dangerous ones. They need to know that their attitudes can kill them
regardless of skill or knowledge or experience.

Dan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I was not aware that there was a psychological test for this. Can you
give pointers to where I can get more details?

I'll see if I can find it on the 'net somewhere. It
exists as paper here in the office, but I think it's copyrighted. Lots
of folks are interested in this sort of thing (they recognize the
traits) and if I knew where to find it they'd all be pleased.

Dan

Found one, but it applies to helicopter pilots. You need to
know a little about 'copters. I found another for airplane pilots but
you need a password (which probably means it costs). I want to go
flying right now but if you Google the five words Invulnerability (I
mistakenly called it Invincibility), Macho, Impulsive, Resignation and
Anti-Authority, all together, you'll get some hits.

Helicopters:
http://helicopterflight.net/Helicopt...titude%202.pdf

Dan

Some asked why we'd ever do slow flight or MCA in the pattern. We
don't practice it there, BUT one of our 150s went out with a student
and instructor and blew a jug right off the engine as they were
leaving the pattern. The had to fly almost the whole pattern at MCA
just to keep it in the air and even then they were slowly losing
altitude. They did make the runway and I hear it was a pretty good
landing.

The previous lesson had been slow flight and MCA

Dan wrote:
Yeah. The old saying, "Attitude is Everything" applies here.

Actually, it would be more correct to say "Attitude is Nothing" when
discussing stalls.

Hilton