Slow Flight

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote:
In skating you can get badly hurt not knowing the limits.
In flying you can get killed.

Shirl:
Coincidentally, I was a figure skating instructor--I know what you're
saying, [snip]

Dudley Henriques:
Unbelievable! I was a Delaware Maryland State and Eastern Regional Speed
Skating Champion (RSROA 1955) Skated Free Style and Dance as well :-))

Pretty cool!
I remember joking about the similarities between skating and flying with
my CFIG. One of the ways, thinking about how, with any of the big jumps
-- axel or any of the doubles or better -- you better be prepared to go
for it 100% or you're probably going to get hurt...that is, you can't
"kinda" do it and get away with it more than a couple of times. Not to
mention all the jokes about landings and spins!

I was in the SF Bay Area. We had a group of speed skaters that rented
our rink Sunday nights. Of course, some of us were there most Sunday
nights watching -- THAT was cool but surely seemed *a lot* more
dangerous than anything we did on figure skates (maybe it was just fear
of the unknown!).
;-)

Shirl wrote:
"Roger (K8RI)" wrote:
In skating you can get badly hurt not knowing the limits.
In flying you can get killed.

Shirl:
Coincidentally, I was a figure skating instructor--I know what you're
saying, [snip]

Dudley Henriques:
Unbelievable! I was a Delaware Maryland State and Eastern Regional Speed
Skating Champion (RSROA 1955) Skated Free Style and Dance as well :-))

Pretty cool!
I remember joking about the similarities between skating and flying with
my CFIG. One of the ways, thinking about how, with any of the big jumps
-- axel or any of the doubles or better -- you better be prepared to go
for it 100% or you're probably going to get hurt...that is, you can't
"kinda" do it and get away with it more than a couple of times. Not to
mention all the jokes about landings and spins!

I was in the SF Bay Area. We had a group of speed skaters that rented
our rink Sunday nights. Of course, some of us were there most Sunday
nights watching -- THAT was cool but surely seemed *a lot* more
dangerous than anything we did on figure skates (maybe it was just fear
of the unknown!).
;-)
That's funny. Roger and I have been friends for years and I never knew
he was into skating. All 3 of us being involved in some way is interesting.
Roger's analogy using skating is fairly accurate. I've used it myself on
occasion with students through the years.
As an aside, our roller speed skating was almost like your short track
racing only slower :-)
I'm wondering since you were into figure skating whether or not you ever
ran into Elvin Griffin? Elvin and I grew up together and actually
competed against each other in speed skating when we were boys. I was a
bit faster than Elvin, but never his match in dance or free style. He
went pro and taught over in new Jersey training a few champions in the
process.
Just a shot. Thought you might have run into him in your travels. He
died last year unfortunately. Skating lost a fine pro and I lost a
boyhood friend.
Anyway, about the Axel and 100%; you're exactly right. I always
considered all jumps, especially doubles (Axels are of course a 3
revolution jump for the double) to be a conditioned memory process. Your
mind equates the rotation against the time and throws the signal at you
to break the rotation at the exact instant required for the landing.
This is why you need constant practice, so the mind doesn't "forget"
this timing.
Some aerobatics require the same timing sense; multiple snaps, the
gyroscopic maneuvers, spins especially.
It's interesting how one thing can be used to profile another in flying.
:-)


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:
I'm wondering since you were into figure skating whether or not you ever
ran into Elvin Griffin? Elvin and I grew up together and actually
competed against each other in speed skating when we were boys. I was a
bit faster than Elvin, but never his match in dance or free style. He
went pro and taught over in new Jersey training a few champions in the
process.

No, can't say I remember ever running into Elvin Griffin. Several great
skaters came out of our rinks in the Bay Area -- Kristi Yamaguchi, Brian
Boitano, Rudy Galindo, Debi Thomas. But to be honest, I was more into
the artistic side of it than the competitive side, though it was
admittedly exciting to be behind-the-scenes during that time.

Anyway, about the Axel and 100%; you're exactly right. I always
considered all jumps, especially doubles (Axels are of course a 3
revolution jump for the double) to be a conditioned memory process. Your
mind equates the rotation against the time and throws the signal at you
to break the rotation at the exact instant required for the landing.
This is why you need constant practice, so the mind doesn't "forget"
this timing.
Some aerobatics require the same timing sense; multiple snaps, the
gyroscopic maneuvers, spins especially.
It's interesting how one thing can be used to profile another in flying.
:-)

That's absolutely true -- we too have discussed the parallels with
flying and skating. Early on, when learning to fly, my CFIG said he
thought I'd do well because athletes have that understanding about
"timing". Ditto for having to do it often to stay proficient, and how
that "timing sense", learned by and programmed into your brain and body,
is the first thing to go when you don't train often enough.

I've also seen a parallel with the attitudes between *some* tailwheel
and tricycle pilots and between freesylers and dancers (some never
acknowledging that even though there are no jumps and spins, the
intricate, close and fast footwork in the dancing requires its own high
level of skill/timing/discipline).

And then there's the discipline parallel -- it isn't easy, you don't
learn it overnight, you never *stop* learning more, and there are few
shortcuts that don't come back to bite you.

Lastly, having learned to fly in gliders, there is an artistic element
to thermaling, maybe like your aerobatics. While the science may be the
same, if you look close enough, everyone has a "style". I remember
commenting that after watching from the ground for so long, even if the
gliders were too high to tell one from the other, I could often tell who
was who based on observations about their individual styles. Glider
aerobatics is *so much* like a graceful ballet in the sky, though some
of the guys cringe at that analogy.

Thanks for sharing that about the skating, you two. I knew there had to
be others who shared the two interests!

Only slightly related to our topic, but in closing the skating
comparisons to flying, and since you are interested in the creative side
of the skating equation, I thought you might enjoy watching the video I
have linked with this post.
This is a video recreation by a very creative person of one of the
demonstrations I used to fly on the air show circuit in the P51 Mustang.
This fellow actually wrote to me and asked for the exact maneuver
sequence and even the location airport over which the display was flown
is accurate.
He did an absolutely marvelous job of it. When I watch this myself, I'm
sorry I didn't use music in the actual demonstration :-))



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4LODPguzTc
--
Dudley Henriques

Loved the vid Dudley!

Dave

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:01:45 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:


Only slightly related to our topic, but in closing the skating
comparisons to flying, and since you are interested in the creative side
of the skating equation, I thought you might enjoy watching the video I
have linked with this post.
This is a video recreation by a very creative person of one of the
demonstrations I used to fly on the air show circuit in the P51 Mustang.
This fellow actually wrote to me and asked for the exact maneuver
sequence and even the location airport over which the display was flown
is accurate.
He did an absolutely marvelous job of it. When I watch this myself, I'm
sorry I didn't use music in the actual demonstration :-))



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4LODPguzTc