SeeYou Mobile: How Steep the Learning Curve?

Chip,

I've been using GPS_Log for 2 or 3 years (great stuff!), and I eventually
switched to SeeYou Mobile for the simple reason to have the data files in
the same format as PC SeeYou. That was about 3 years/400h ago.

The changeover took me significantly less than an afternoon, and the fine
tuning another flight or two. Since then, it just runs and does what I want.
Just wondering - where exactly do I get the 747 rating ? :-)

If you don't want a function on a button (like scrolling through the WP
list), just disable it in the setting menue.
The whole benefit of SeeYou Mobile is that you configure it to exactly what
you need on the ground, and then inflight you just use it. I haven't done
any configuration inflight so far - that would mean using the stylus, and
having the eyes in the cockpit too long.

The only input from me during most of the flights are
- zoom in/out
- change page
- change target WP or retrieve info on target WP

The nav boxes I have set are
- bearing to target
- distance to target
- ground speed
- required L/D
- actual L/D

When climbing to the glidepath for final, required L/D tells me when I can
leave that thermal alone.

Although I have the terrain data, I very rarely use the terrain on display
(I actually can see it quite nicely just outside the canopy :-). I only
display airfields/outlanding fields, mountain passes and airspace.

Speed tasks and AAT's are no problem at all, and even a change of the task
inflight wouldn't be a big hassle (although in France it's done on the grid,
sometimes sitting in the glider just before takeoff). I have no experience
with MAT's (is that those stupid cats craddles?).

But at the end, either you'll like it or not. I don't see a big performance
advantage of SeeYou Mobile over GPS_Log, but as I said, it's an advantage in
convenience.

Bert

"Chip Bearden" wrote in message
oups.com...
My iPAQ is dedicated to whatever soaring app I end up using; there's
nothing else in memory (I've checked). And the IR port is turned off
although I've only used it indoors so far.

With all the encouragement to "stick with it, it's worth it," I'm
beginning to get the sense that learning to use SeeYou Mobile (or,
from what I understand, WinPilot) may take as long as learning to fly
did originally. Seriously, that's not what I had in mind. I'm
willing to invest time to learn a new technology or application if I
have confidence that it's worth the investment. Much of what has been
touted for SeeYou Mobile so far, however, I've already got in GNII,
which took about one flight to learn to use. Nor am I interested in
using something that requires so much attention in the cockpit that I
have less time to focus on the flying itself.

Here's another example: I'm on the bus this morning into New York
playing with SeeYou Mobile and I push the rocker button to the left to
change map screens. Fine. After a few minutes, though, I notice my
target waypoint has changed. Turns out I'd mis-hit the button and
pushed it up at the same time I pushed left. On the one hand, being
able to change waypoints at any time by scrolling up or down is
whizzy, although I'm not sure how useful it is given the 235 waypoints
I have in my file. On the other hand, I don't want to have to check
the "next waypoint" message every time my hand goes near the iPAQ when
flying in rough air. I also grasp my Compaq 1550 with a couple of
fingers while tapping the screen but I still occasionally hit the
wrong spot. The worst thing that happens with GNII, however, is that
info on a waypoint pops up, then disappears in a few seconds if I
don't tap "Go To". It's self correcting, in another words. My
impression so far is that any of a dozen different small tapping
errors can alter settings in SeeYou Mobile. I know some can be
disabled during configuration, but shouldn't the default set up favor
new users?

I'm still concerned about being able to easily and very quickly enter
tasks without using the stylus, and play the "what if" games required
in a U.S. MAT task where you experiment with different next turnpoints
to time your arrival home. Apparently U.S. contest rules and tasking
are different enough in that respect as to render useless or
inconvenient what would be perfectly acceptable in other countries
(e.g., entering the task before launch).

I've been playing with this package for nearly two weeks now and am
increasingly disquieted by the thought that although it does
everything I want, I won't be able to use it in the real world. I've
actually had several contest pilots say that offline in the past 24
hours. The term that comes to mind, perhaps unfairly, is "a solution
looking for a problem." Is SeeYou Mobile overkill? Will savvy soaring
pilots soon be able to brag that they're "certified power users of
SeeYou Mobile" along with having their 1000 km diplome?

Keep those comments and suggestions coming.

Chip Bearden

I've also been looking for a GNII replacement. It's a nice program,
but lacks a few important features -- it doesn't have a bottom to top
thermal average, and support for figuring out how long it will take to
finish a turn area or MAT flight is sketchy. Terrain map with landable
footprint also seems very useful in ridge country.

The main problem I've found is that other programs are not attuned to
US contest rules (or maybe vice versa!) They are designed for casual
cross country, OLC, or contests under European rules.

Task entry is a big issue. We often get tasks on the grid, 10 mintues
before takeoff. We often get tasks in the air, 10 minutes before the
start gate opens. (Let's not get off topic on a discussion of this
fact. Europeans will say, how dangeorous to change tasks in midair.
We'll say, how dangerous to send the whole fleet off into a
thunderstorm just because you were too rigid to change task in the
air. End of discussion.) This means US contest pilots absolutely need
quick, easy, goof-proof task entry. The GNII, designed for US
contests, is good at this. The others I evaluated are not. Even a few
more clicks, or a few more chances to freeze the whole thing by
pushing the wrong button, are a severe downside. I threw away one
program at Mifflin, when it froze my PDA and GPS while trying to enter
a task just before the start. (Yes I pushed the wrong button, but I
was looking out the window a lot, and why do I need to see boxes with
runway details when I'm picking a task?)

The US also has the MAT task, where you pick the turnpoints that end
the flight. Again, this means you have to evaluate lots of different
task options, while in the air, and sometimes while barreling down the
ridge at 100 knots or with traffic around. Simple, "what if" task
modification is vital. This is much harder on most of the programs I
evaluated, though their time estimates are better than GNII once the
task is entered.

As a minor issue, you want the program to handle US configured start
and finish gates, and US turnpoints. That's also present in GNII
(except for safety finish glideslope, but nobody has that yet).

Wind calculation is important issue, and hard to evaluate. The acid
test, for me, is: I've been barreling along the ridge without turning
for 400 miles (MIffin 2007). The ridge is about to make a sharp right
turn. Is the wind strength/direction going to keep me up around the
corner? Or, I'm thermaling, and want to try the ridge. Well, is it 310
at 12, or is it 280 at 8? GNII is about medium on this. In my
experience the SN10 was better, but that's not a PDA program.

I'm hoping the clear-nav will solve all these problems (plus
visibility), though the cost in dollars and watts will be a lot more
than a PDA.

John Cochrane

On Nov 9, 10:05 am, BB wrote:
I've also been looking for a GNII replacement.

-- good analysis snipped --

Me too.

Here, in Colorado, the winds are really flaky, so the GNII display of
instantaneous headwind component and difference from current vector
wind is a must for me. I'd love to be able to enter manual "winds
aloft" as I often fly a final glide in a tailwind, bu that can switch
to 10-20 knots headwind at 3-5K AGL (based on AWOS at the home field
and my guess of the altitude when that happens).

What's currently missing in GNII:

On the fly OLC optimization

Glide footprints based on terrain.

Modified final glide - adding some extra waypoints "on the fly" so I
can follow an off course cloud street, go around airspace, mountains,
blue holes, etc..

When 'fun flying', the ability to create a task some time after
leaving home, and having the software figure out the start time by
examining the historical flight data

On a declared task, not having to press the START button as I cross
the start line (see above) I want a button that does "I started a
while ago, go figure it out for me"

Automatic task finish - the last thing I need to be doing is pressing
the FINISH button while finishing with a dozen other sailplanes
nearby.

ALL airport data. Many airports here have an AWOS, but most airport
data available online and available in PDA software only provides a
single frequency for the CTAF. I fly near several tower controlled
airports, so not only need tower frequency, but ATIS and approach
control frequencies. Here's an excerpt for Colorado Springs from
AirNav.com:
UNICOM: 122.95
ATIS: 125.0(719-596-7040) 254.3
SPRINGS GROUND: 121.7 348.6
SPRINGS TOWER: 119.9(WEST) 133.15(EAST) 335.55(EAST) 360.6(WEST)
133.15 335.55
SPRINGS APPROACH: 118.5 239.025 120.6
SPRINGS DEPARTU 124.0 257.875
I carry current sectional charts, but as many of you know, sometimes
conditions can go from good to marginal (too busy now to find and
unfold the correct chart), to "oh crap, I'll need to punch through COS
class C to get to a safe landing spot".

-Tom