O2 filling

"Dan" wrote in message
...
So short of doing your own transfilling, where does everyone get cheap
O2? Or are you paying big bucks at the FBOs? For an occasional user,
the transfilling equipment does not make sense.

An Oxygen optimizer (i.e., Mountain High or Aerox) makes your tank full of
O2 last about six to ten times longer than a normal system. Filling your own
and an Optimizer brings the cost of O2 down to near zero. Further, it makes
it worthwhile to use higher altitudes that an expensive system make
prohibitive.

In article ,
says...


On Nov 15, 7:05 pm, Airbus wrote:
A bit O.T. :
I read an accident report a few years back - an FBO in Europe re-filled an
O2 bottle with compressed air. In the ensuing high-altitude flight, the
pilot lost conciousness and the airplane crashed in the mountains. A
passenger, miraculously, survived and confirmed the cause of the crash due
to the pilot's unconciousness.

What I've wondered ever since I read it :
What would the FBO be doing with compressed air in the first place, and how
could this confusion occur? What *could* they have been thinking?

They use compressed air to drive all their tools in the shop.



Sure - but to get air from their shop compressor into an O2 bottle would
require some real ingenuity. Anyone smart enough to do that would be smart
enough not to do it, I should think!

I'm wondering - maybe the FBO didn't have O2 facilities, and some gopher went
out to a local diving supplies shop, and together they managed to jury-rig the
fittings . . .

In article , says...


Airbus wrote:
A bit O.T. :
I read an accident report a few years back - an FBO in Europe re-filled an
O2 bottle with compressed air. In the ensuing high-altitude flight, the
pilot lost conciousness and the airplane crashed in the mountains. A
passenger, miraculously, survived and confirmed the cause of the crash due
to the pilot's unconciousness.

What I've wondered ever since I read it :
What would the FBO be doing with compressed air in the first place, and how
could this confusion occur? What *could* they have been thinking?


This would be complete negligence had this happened in the US - with the
standards in place.

In any country . . .


The fittings in the US are spec'd by the Compressed Gas Association
(CGA) for different gasses and gas mixes. Oxygen gets a different
fitting than Compressed Breathing Air, which gets different fittings
than Argon, Nitrogen, CO2.. etc.

The only way this could have happened is if 1) the oxygen tanks were
mis-filled with air at the vendor (an adapter would have been needed) or
2) someone adapted an air bottle to an oxygen fitting.

When the threads or the nipple dont line up properly, its a big red flag.

Airbus wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Nov 15, 7:05 pm, Airbus wrote:
A bit O.T. :
I read an accident report a few years back - an FBO in Europe re-filled an
O2 bottle with compressed air. In the ensuing high-altitude flight, the
pilot lost conciousness and the airplane crashed in the mountains. A
passenger, miraculously, survived and confirmed the cause of the crash due
to the pilot's unconciousness.

What I've wondered ever since I read it :
What would the FBO be doing with compressed air in the first place, and how
could this confusion occur? What *could* they have been thinking?
They use compressed air to drive all their tools in the shop.



Sure - but to get air from their shop compressor into an O2 bottle would
require some real ingenuity. Anyone smart enough to do that would be smart
enough not to do it, I should think!

I'm wondering - maybe the FBO didn't have O2 facilities, and some gopher went
out to a local diving supplies shop, and together they managed to jury-rig the
fittings . . .

Not to mention getting the 125 psi
shop air up to about 2500 psi to fill
the bottle...

It is puzzling. In the US, about the
only thing bottled air is used for is
firefighters' air bottles, scuba diving
bottles and breathing air for working
in hazardous atmospheres. I'd suspect
one of these three sources.

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, Dan wrote:

So short of doing your own transfilling, where does everyone get cheap
O2? Or are you paying big bucks at the FBOs? For an occasional user,
the transfilling equipment does not make sense.

You can put together an adapter for pretty cheap, from parts at your local
hose shop.

I fill from my neighbor's welding bottle. The only payment he requires is
the occasional favor.

-Dan

On Nov 15, 10:39 pm, "Matt W. Barrow"
wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message

...

So short of doing your own transfilling, where does everyone get cheap
O2? Or are you paying big bucks at the FBOs? For an occasional user,
the transfilling equipment does not make sense.

An Oxygen optimizer (i.e., Mountain High or Aerox) makes your tank full of
O2 last about six to ten times longer than a normal system. Filling your own
and an Optimizer brings the cost of O2 down to near zero. Further, it makes
it worthwhile to use higher altitudes that an expensive system make
prohibitive.

Would it be worth it in a non-turbo aircraft? (ie. 182, Comanche?) I
live out west and have been debating for a while.

Anyone know of a good place that fills tanks in the Phoenix area?

--Dan

Matt W. Barrow wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message
...
So short of doing your own transfilling, where does everyone get cheap
O2? Or are you paying big bucks at the FBOs? For an occasional user,
the transfilling equipment does not make sense.

An Oxygen optimizer (i.e., Mountain High or Aerox)

I think you mean Precise Flight (Nelson).

Aerox doesn't make one to my knowledge.

I've got the Precise Flight and it definitely does extend
the bottle by a substantial amount. The MH I hear is good.
They've addressed the major concern I had when I was comparing
it against the PF one several years ago.

Dan wrote:

Would it be worth it in a non-turbo aircraft? (ie. 182, Comanche?) I
live out west and have been debating for a while.

Anyone know of a good place that fills tanks in the Phoenix area?


I have a normally aspirated aircraft and I live down here at sea
level. I regularly get up to 10,000 or so and sometimes higher.
I like having the portable system. Tank filling is hardly anything
and it doesn't need to be done that often. All of the oxygen
system vendors will top your tank off at Oshkosh (and probably
other shows) as well..

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Nov 15, 10:39 pm, "Matt W. Barrow"
wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message

...

So short of doing your own transfilling, where does everyone get cheap
O2? Or are you paying big bucks at the FBOs? For an occasional user,
the transfilling equipment does not make sense.

An Oxygen optimizer (i.e., Mountain High or Aerox) makes your tank full
of
O2 last about six to ten times longer than a normal system. Filling your
own
and an Optimizer brings the cost of O2 down to near zero. Further, it
makes
it worthwhile to use higher altitudes that an expensive system make
prohibitive.

Would it be worth it in a non-turbo aircraft? (ie. 182, Comanche?) I
live out west and have been debating for a while.

As with so many other points, it depends. First, I find it rather odd that
someone would have built in O tanks in a non-turbo aircraft. Also, much
depends on WHY you want to go high: terrain, distance, favorable winds...

When I lived in Montrose, CO, every flight pretty muh dictated going high,
often 15K or 16K feet to get over the mountains and over to the front range.
Added to this was most flights were 350 or more miles.

If you do use oxygen fairly often, check the prices on the O conservers and
do the math to see if it's worthwhile. Also, add in your fuel saving in
going higher.


Anyone know of a good place that fills tanks in the Phoenix area?

Call around to some welding supply stores, but don't tell them it's for an
aircraft, just tell them you're doing to fancy artwork welding. :~)


--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY

On Nov 17, 2:16 pm, "Matt W. Barrow"
wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message

...





On Nov 15, 10:39 pm, "Matt W. Barrow"
wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message

...

So short of doing your own transfilling, where does everyone get cheap
O2? Or are you paying big bucks at the FBOs? For an occasional user,
the transfilling equipment does not make sense.

An Oxygen optimizer (i.e., Mountain High or Aerox) makes your tank full
of
O2 last about six to ten times longer than a normal system. Filling your
own
and an Optimizer brings the cost of O2 down to near zero. Further, it
makes
it worthwhile to use higher altitudes that an expensive system make
prohibitive.

Would it be worth it in a non-turbo aircraft? (ie. 182, Comanche?) I
live out west and have been debating for a while.

As with so many other points, it depends. First, I find it rather odd that
someone would have built in O tanks in a non-turbo aircraft. Also, much
depends on WHY you want to go high: terrain, distance, favorable winds...

When I lived in Montrose, CO, every flight pretty muh dictated going high,
often 15K or 16K feet to get over the mountains and over to the front range.
Added to this was most flights were 350 or more miles.

If you do use oxygen fairly often, check the prices on the O conservers and
do the math to see if it's worthwhile. Also, add in your fuel saving in
going higher.



Anyone know of a good place that fills tanks in the Phoenix area?

Call around to some welding supply stores, but don't tell them it's for an
aircraft, just tell them you're doing to fancy artwork welding. :~)

--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Matt,

It would be a portable system. I am in a club with a 182 and a
Comanche 260. The main purpose of the O2 would be to get to MEAs over
high terrain enabling me to go IFR on those flights. Of course, the
manual says the ceiling on the Comanche is FL210, and the 182 is 18k,
however not having Oxygen, I am not sure how practical it is to go
much above 12.5k in those aircraft...

--Dan