Obstacle avoidance between take-off and airway

On Jan 15, 4:22*am, wrote:
I believe the rule is that if there is a departure procedure
published, fly the departure procedure.

The procedure has to be published for your runway. So in our sim guys
case he could have made up his own departure because the runway he was
using does not have a published departure procedure. To my knowledge
there are no non-towered airports that prohibit IFR departures from a
certain runway.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
..


The procedure has to be published for your runway. So in our sim guys
case he could have made up his own departure because the runway he was
using does not have a published departure procedure. To my knowledge
there are no non-towered airports that prohibit IFR departures from a
certain runway.

-Robert

Sure there are, but for Part 91 it is iffy. If I am operating Part 135
IFR out of Big Bear, I better damn well not use Runway 26 unless I get a
VFR climb clearance from center.

On Jan 15, 6:20*pm, Sam Spade wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

.



The procedure has to be published for your runway. So in our sim guys
case he could have made up his own departure because the runway he was
using does not have a published departure procedure. To my knowledge
there are no non-towered airports that prohibit IFR departures from a
certain runway.

-Robert

Sure there are, but for Part 91 it is iffy. *If I am operating Part 135
IFR out of Big Bear, I better damn well not use Runway 26 unless I get a
VFR climb clearance from center.

Part 135 is different. Are you aware of an non-towered airport that
prohibits IFR depatures from a given runway? Can you post the airport
identifier?

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Jan 15, 6:20 pm, Sam Spade wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:

.




The procedure has to be published for your runway. So in our sim guys
case he could have made up his own departure because the runway he was
using does not have a published departure procedure. To my knowledge
there are no non-towered airports that prohibit IFR departures from a
certain runway.

-Robert

Sure there are, but for Part 91 it is iffy. If I am operating Part 135
IFR out of Big Bear, I better damn well not use Runway 26 unless I get a
VFR climb clearance from center.


Part 135 is different. Are you aware of an non-towered airport that
prohibits IFR depatures from a given runway? Can you post the airport
identifier?

-Robert
The airport we are discussing is good enough. It doesn't have a tower,
it is an IFR airport, and takeoff minimums are NA for Runway 26.
Without takeoff minimums there cannot be a diverse departure area or
ODP. Now, can you roll your own ODP for Runway 26 as a 91-only
operator? I think that is something only FAA legal could answer with
certainty.

On Jan 16, 8:43*am, Sam Spade wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Jan 15, 6:20 pm, Sam Spade wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:

.

The procedure has to be published for your runway. So in our sim guys
case he could have made up his own departure because the runway he was
using does not have a published departure procedure. To my knowledge
there are no non-towered airports that prohibit IFR departures from a
certain runway.

-Robert

Sure there are, but for Part 91 it is iffy. *If I am operating Part 135
IFR out of Big Bear, I better damn well not use Runway 26 unless I get a
VFR climb clearance from center.

Part 135 is different. Are you aware of an non-towered airport that
prohibits IFR depatures from a given runway? Can you post the airport
identifier?

-Robert

The airport we are discussing is good enough. *It doesn't have a tower,
it is an IFR airport, and takeoff minimums are NA for Runway 26.
Without takeoff minimums there cannot be a diverse departure area or
ODP. *Now, can you roll your own ODP for Runway 26 as a 91-only
operator? *I think that is something only FAA legal could answer with
certainty.- Hide quoted text -

But there is no requirement for part 91 to have published takeoff
mins. Many of us depart IFR from airports that do not have terminal
procedures published of any kind. There is no restrictions on part 91
to have an ODP. Note that 91.175 (f) (depature mins) says "This
paragraph applies to persons operating an aircraft under part 121,
125, 129, or 135 of this chapter.".

So the only requirement under part 91 is what you do not hit anything.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:

On Jan 16, 8:43 am, Sam Spade wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:

On Jan 15, 6:20 pm, Sam Spade wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:

.

The procedure has to be published for your runway. So in our sim guys
case he could have made up his own departure because the runway he was
using does not have a published departure procedure. To my knowledge
there are no non-towered airports that prohibit IFR departures from a
certain runway.

-Robert

Sure there are, but for Part 91 it is iffy. If I am operating Part 135
IFR out of Big Bear, I better damn well not use Runway 26 unless I get a
VFR climb clearance from center.

Part 135 is different. Are you aware of an non-towered airport that
prohibits IFR depatures from a given runway? Can you post the airport
identifier?

-Robert

The airport we are discussing is good enough. It doesn't have a tower,
it is an IFR airport, and takeoff minimums are NA for Runway 26.
Without takeoff minimums there cannot be a diverse departure area or
ODP. Now, can you roll your own ODP for Runway 26 as a 91-only
operator? I think that is something only FAA legal could answer with
certainty.- Hide quoted text -


But there is no requirement for part 91 to have published takeoff
mins. Many of us depart IFR from airports that do not have terminal
procedures published of any kind. There is no restrictions on part 91
to have an ODP. Note that 91.175 (f) (depature mins) says "This
paragraph applies to persons operating an aircraft under part 121,
125, 129, or 135 of this chapter.".

So the only requirement under part 91 is what you do not hit anything.

-Robert
I agree that Part 91 can roll your own at VFR airports. I also agree
that takeoff minimums do not legally apply to Part 91 only. My question
is about an IFR airport where takeoff minimums are denied altogther for
a particular runway. I think the "hazards of litigation" exist for that
circumstance.

It certainly is not clear cut, of course, but if something goes wrong it
would become a factor.

On Jan 16, 3:45*pm, Sam Spade wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

I agree that Part 91 can roll your own at VFR airports. *I also agree
that takeoff minimums do not legally apply to Part 91 only. *My question
is about an IFR airport where takeoff minimums are denied altogther for
a particular runway. *I think the "hazards of litigation" exist for that
circumstance.

It certainly is not clear cut, of course, but if something goes wrong it
would become a factor.- Hide quoted text -

Possible but I know of no precedent set where a court held a pilot to
135 standards when operating under 91. Even for part 135 the procedure
does not say you cannot take off from runway 20, it just says that the
given ODP is not authorized for runway 20.

-Robert