i think I flew into class c airspace accidentally withoutestablishing communication

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message

VOR is obviously implied by the language to even the most casual reader.

It's not implied at all to an informed reader.

Try to pass a PPL written, oral or practical without understanding how to
use a VOR.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
...

Which is one of the systems I mentioned to start off with. But when I
took my PPL test ride ADF and GPS weren't options so I shortened it.


You said use of a VOR was in the PP requirements. It's not.

It's on the written exam. You won't make it as a Private Pilot if you can't
even pass the written exam.

-c

"WingFlaps" wrote in message
news:2864057a-bfbf-496a-9b63-

So you are suggestigng that electronics should be the primary nav tool
(why then do we spend soooo much time on visual navigation during
training??)

Depends on the flight. You need to be able to do whatever is required, and
then you can make your choices.

Any pilot better be prepared to use electronics as the primary nav tool.
For example, eastern Washington state looks awful nondescript at night and
if there's a cloud layer above, putting the north star off of one wingtip or
another isn't going to work.

Also, if you talk to NW Pilot here, who is in the (lucky f'in) business of
ferrying flights across vast expanses of water, he'll probably tell you that
there are times when visual navigation won't work.

Personally, I navigate by VOR/DME, but I use GPS as a sanity check. A quick
glimpse at the display is worth long minutes with a sectional and E6B while
you're trying to fly the airplane in, say, turbulence. Whenever I use the
GPS, though, I check outside for quick visual cues, or I cross-reference
with the Nav radios as a sort of reverse-sanity check. The important thing
is that pilot, VOR and GPS all agree on where you're at.

(In the Pacific Northwest, if you can see the mountains it's difficult to
get lost.)


-c

"Peter Clark" wrote in message

Of course VOR. I was agreeing that there are multiple choices of
radio style thing that can satisfy that section of the PTS.

But, if the examiner finds out you don't know how to use a VOR, you're not
going to pass your checkride. I'd bet money on it.

(What we need is a DE in here!)

-c

gatt wrote:
"Peter Clark" wrote in message

Of course VOR. I was agreeing that there are multiple choices of
radio style thing that can satisfy that section of the PTS.

But, if the examiner finds out you don't know how to use a VOR, you're not
going to pass your checkride. I'd bet money on it.

I got $20 that says you can pass your
Light Sport checkride without knowing
what a VOR is...

But then, I don't think that's what you
meant.

On Jan 30, 3:55*am, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:
WingFlaps wrote:
Hi 601,

So you are suggestigng that electronics should be the primary nav tool
(why then do we spend soooo much time on visual navigation during
training??) *Do you check your GPS by your visual Nav (i.e. GPS is
your primary system and visual your backup)? Using a map and brain is
a good system and not subject to any of the millions of failure modes
possible in the electronics of GPS. Now IFR is another game entirely
but if your eyes are outside the cockpit how do you use GPS ;-)

Cheers

I'm not saying anything of the sort but I'm also saying that there are
times in VFR flight where they may have to be.

Sorry I must have misunderstood your saying:
"I was countering the argument of a student pilot that basically
wrote
that non-instrument pilots shouldn't be using any electronic
navigation
system as primary navigation."

I was of course talking about pure VFR and am well aware that one may
require IFR skills at times. My concern is that the color GPS screens
are far too seductive and really do stop you keeping a mental
reference on a VFR chart. The trouble is, if you get too out of sync.
with the chart it's damn hard to find yourself -at least for me. Of
course you can always call up ATC and admit you are lost... :-o
That said, provided you can stop and think time and heading from last
known position seems to generally get you in the right "square". As
for PPL test, I've not seen a requirement for using electronic aids
and the test does not involve an actual Xcountry and the Xcountries I
have completed did not use any electronic aids (the VOR was INOP). I
do know how to tune in a VOR and find a radial but never actually used
it -I'm too busy looking out the window (and that's why I fly)...

Cheers

Cheers

SSR without using paart of the traaining requires hood time an...

On Jan 30, 7:52*am, "gatt" wrote:
"WingFlaps" wrote in message

news:2864057a-bfbf-496a-9b63-

So you are suggestigng that electronics should be the primary nav tool
(why then do we spend soooo much time on visual navigation during
training??)

Depends on the flight. *You need to be able to do whatever is required, and
then you can make your choices.

Any pilot better be prepared to use electronics as the primary nav tool.
For example, eastern Washington state looks awful nondescript at night and
if there's a cloud layer above, putting the north star off of one wingtip or
another isn't going to work.


Yes, I agree. My point is that most of the time you use primary tools
and in that case it would be a chart for VFR (and that is the main
point I am asking for confirmation of). Now if there are no ground
references that primary tool won't work so you then use your secondary
tools...

Also, if you talk to NW Pilot here, who is in the (lucky f'in) business of
ferrying flights across vast expanses of water, he'll probably tell you that
there are times when visual navigation won't work.

Yep, no ground reference just like being above cloud...

Cheers

Jim Stewart wrote:
gatt wrote:
"Peter Clark" wrote in message

Of course VOR. I was agreeing that there are multiple choices of
radio style thing that can satisfy that section of the PTS.

But, if the examiner finds out you don't know how to use a VOR, you're
not going to pass your checkride. I'd bet money on it.

I got $20 that says you can pass your
Light Sport checkride without knowing
what a VOR is...

But then, I don't think that's what you
meant.


And I'll bet you can pass a driving test in all states in the country
without knowing how to use a VOR but so what?

For that matter when I took the check ride for my PP-H RC I wasn't
checked on any navigation systems at all.

On Jan 29, 3:32*pm, (Ron Lee) wrote:
I still maintain that it is imperative to have a course-line plotted
on a paper chart for all but the shortest VFR flights. *

Consider the VFR over the top flight whose pilot hasn't plotted the
course on a paper chart and suffers a sudden electrical system
failure. *Terrestrial landmarks are obscured by the undercast, so it's
not possible to estimate bearings from them. *Barring the use of hand
held electronics, how is he to ascertain his current position and
route to a safe landing?

I pull out my portable GPS and determine my best option.

I think the answer is to call ATC but I think one should not be in a
position of not having any idea what ground level is where you are
(i.e. you have no references to a VFR chart).

Cheers

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

And you are a idiot!

Larry, that wasn't an insult. It was an accurate descriptor.

Actually, it was an unsubstantiated insult to my intelligence that
contains a grammatical error.

Well, it definately contains a grammatical error.

-c