gun discharge in cockpit.

On Mar 31, 5:25 pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:

Then why is it that the cities in the US with the harshest gun laws also
have the highest rate of violent crimes that use guns?

Washington DC, for example...

On Mar 31, 5:47 pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 31, 4:51 pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:

Google Miami FBI Shootout

Don't need to.

Are you involved in containing/stopping heavily armed bank robbers? If
so, you need to be equally armed.

But if you are a private citizen, you will probably end up in jail if
you try to STOP fleeing robbers.

Dan Mc

The point was that after the FBI put a god awful number of wounds into
those suspects (who for the most part were armed with Mini-14s) was that
the 9mm didn't have the stopping power to deal with a suspect even if
all they were hyped up on was adrenaline.

There is a reason that the US Army SF, FBI Hostage Rescue and pretty
much all major SWAT teams have switched to either the .45 or .40.

Right -- and they (all of the above) are looking for people.

YOU as a citizen are not out hunting them -- you're doing your best to
avoid a confrontation but if forced, use deadly force.

Not the same situation.

Dan Mc

"Gig 601Xl Builder" wrote in message
m...
Matt W. Barrow wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 4:48 pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:

Hang on -- IPSC is a great exercise in competitive shooting -- but it
is just that -- a competition -- a game!

For a practical exercise, try IDPA. No tricked out guns, just pretty much
factory stock (with a few common tweaks).

Which is pretty much what Cooper and the boys had when they created IPSC.
The gaming game later. And as I mentioned last week a lot of those gaming
additions have become combat modifications.

Which is why IDPA is a great exercise (here and now) for those who want to
become more adept at "real world" situations.

http://www.idpa.com

"Dan" wrote in message
...


1) I can buy twice the 9 mm ammo for the same number of .45 rounds
(The price of ammo will continue to rise) and thereby practice far
more often.

Lamers like you require twice the ammo.


2) There is no proven appreciable difference in the effects on the
human body between 9mm and 40 or 45 rounds,

You're not really serious about this one, are you??



3) the 9mm capacity is near twice that per magazine of a 45,

Again, required only by beginners. Keep working on it.


4) I can put two rounds downrange with a 9mm before the muzzle flip
cycle is complete with a .45. or 40

or uprange, crossrange, diaginalrange,,, we can see this one coming.


5) If I'm using a handgun it's to fight my way to a shotgun or a rifle
or to cover (or both)


If you are in town at the grocery store, it's a long way back to the farm,
hayseed.

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:20:19 -0700 (PDT), Dan wrote:

On Mar 31, 3:13 pm, WJRFlyBoy wrote:

Well look who dropped in after adding to his "200 hours in the left
seat."

Didn't you say you were a LRRP? Unit? years? Rank? CO? Which Ranger
School Class? White Thread or no?

Prior service not were, yes, 1, yes, couple, yes, yes for tabs.

Oh really? Which years did you serve?

Dan Mc

The years I was there.

http://tinyurl.com/2fxzee

Dan wrote in news:4fdc9358-a1e0-4adc-9676-
:

On Mar 31, 2:22 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

There is, of course, the added ingredient that the US has gone
completely insane, but what you gonna do about that?

Bertie

Sorry I let this one slip....

Every generation since Aristotle's believed the world is going to hell
in a handbasket. No news there. Part of it is maturity and the
realization that life ain't pretty and you have to pursue and create
happiness and beauty -- it's not granted, unless you seek it.

Where exactly, did you read that I thought the wrld was fgoing to hell
in ahand basket.

The US is not the whole world.

Bertie

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in
m:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:


But it does define death. The wold is a more violent place almost
everywhere these days. Lots of things are contributing, but there is
no question about it, the availability of guns in the US is
unquestionably responsible for the staggering murder rate which is
unequalled amongst "first world" nations. If you guys and the NRA are
so interesed in responsible gun wonership, then you should be
supporting restrictions on ownership, not opposing them.

Bertie


Then why is it that the cities in the US with the harshest gun laws
also have the highest rate of violent crimes that use guns?


Spurious and you know it.


Bertie

Dan wrote in news:3f8d3625-e58a-4349-b98f-0352035de277@
8g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

On Mar 31, 5:25 pm, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:

Then why is it that the cities in the US with the harshest gun laws also
have the highest rate of violent crimes that use guns?

Washington DC, for example...


Good grief.


Bertie

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in
m:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dan wrote in
:

On Mar 31, 5:22 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

But it does define death. The wold is a more violent place almost
everywhere these days. Lots of things are contributing, but there
is no question about it, the availability of guns in the US is --
unquestionably -- responsible for the staggering murder rate
which is unequalled amongst "first world" nations. If you guys and
the NRA are so interesed in responsible gun wonership, then you
should be supporting restrictions on ownership, not opposing them.

Bertie
That statement is absolutely, positively, and profoundly false.

There are many countries with gun ownership rates similar to or
higher than the US, yet those have very low murder rates. The
reverse is also true.

Finland, Switzerland, and New Zealand have virtually identical gun
ownership rates to the US, and yet their murder rates are
significantly lower than those of surrounding countries.


That's because everyone in Switzerland and Finland are military
reserve. They don't own the guns, the state does.
There's no evidence that murder rates are higher in those countries
with higher levels of gun ownership. The only way to show such
relationships is cherry picking a few countries to make the
comparison.

Israel, with the highest gun ownership rate in the world, has a
murder rate 40% below Canada's.

Again, the military.....


So if the gun in my house were owned by the government instead of me
it would some how know that and not allow itself to shoot someone it
wasn't supposed to?

Really, how's that work?


Well, in Switzerland and Finland, the two examples you gave, military
service is mandatory. A year, or two, can't remember which. ( I know
several Swiss well and get to Helsinki fairly often so I can ask when
I;m there) When you get out, you are on reserve for life. The gun laws
in both places are much stricter than anything proposed in the US,
BTW...

They don't buy guns as toys, they have them as part of a national
defense plan.

And your argument is bull**** and you know it.


Bertie

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in
m:

Flydive wrote:


So, by this you mean that is not guns that are dangerous, but the
American population? Well then maybe it would be a good idea to ban
guns over there........

Unfortunately yes it is the American population that is the problem.
And we've tried gun localized gun bans and they don't work. These
people that break the law have a bad habit of ignoring gun laws as
well.



As do the people that sell them to them as well as the distrubitors and
manufacturers.



Bertie