Let's move on

Rocky Stevens wrote:
On Aug 17, 9:11 am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
The old Coupe is a wonderful airplane as I'm sure you have already
learned. It chugs along quite cheerfully on a dime. I have a few hours in
one that we had on the field. It was a lot of fun, sort of like a car. I'd
roll down the side window and just feel the breezes. We flew it off a hard
surface but it behaved a bit better on the grass.
I haven't taken it on grass yet, but it lands so easily I expect it'll be
very nice. (Our local grass strip -- one of our favorite places to fly --
is still closed since the flooding in June. Six feet of water killed the
grass, and they're keeping it closed until the turf comes back strong enough
to take the abuse of landings.)

The one thing I recall more than anything else was how low the nose was
when we had to prop it once in a while.
You may be describing a typical problem with 'Coupes. The landing gear
geometry is important, and with age gets "off" as the landing gear donuts
age and sag. This also adversely impacts take-off performance, as it
changes the angle of attack. Our landing gear is brand new, and sits fairly
tall, especially compared to the old, clapped out Ercoupe I flew in back in
Wisconsin.

Of course, it's a tiny airplane, so even "sitting tall" it's pretty low to
the ground. Everything about it is...cute.

Looks like your son has taken to the bird with no trouble at all. Glad you
guys are getting some relief from the gas prices :-))
Yeah, we can pretty much fly the 'Coupe four times a week (or more) for what
it costs to fly Atlas once. Once the weather gets cold, and we're not able
to fly with the top down, I expect we'll not be flying "Sweetie" quite so
much -- but ya gotta make hay while the sun's shining!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
Ercoupe N94856www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

How expensive is it to maintain a coupe, relative to other aircraft?
There are a few models that are LSA eligible, and I have been tossing
the idea of buying one to train in.

Can't speak to the current prices, but for sheer fun on a budget, the
Coupe is a great little airplane. I wouldn't recommend buying one for
initial flight training however. Your initial learning curve requires
acclimation to controls and control response that are much better
learned in a straight conventional setup. Even an Ercoupe with a rudder
conversion would not be as suitable for initial training as say a 150
Cessna. Once you have coordination down pat, the switch to a Coupe is a
fun thing.

--
Dudley Henriques

How expensive is it to maintain a coupe, relative to other aircraft?
There are a few models that are LSA eligible, and I have been tossing
the idea of buying one to train in.

Can't speak to the current prices, but for sheer fun on a budget, the
Coupe is a great little airplane. I wouldn't recommend buying one for
initial flight training however.

Agree 100% with Dudley -- this bird is not a primary trainer.

The Ercoupe is incredibly easy to fly -- it was designed by Fred Weick (the
guy who later designed the Cherokee) to be "Everyman's Plane", the plane
that anyone can fly with minimal training after they come back from WWII.

To achieve this he made it as automotive as possible, with the yoke working
as a steering wheel on the ground, and the rudder pedals eliminated
completely. (The rudders are interconnected with the ailerons, and work
remarkably well at keeping the ball centered.)

Much of his design innovations have become standard in all planes (an
electric starter, all-metal construction, etc.) and were quite modern for
the time -- but much of them did NOT become standard, meaning that learning
to fly in an Ercoupe is pretty much a developmental dead-end. You'll never
know how to fly a plane with rudder pedals if you train in one that only has
a brake pedal on the floor!

Thus, when my daughter starts training next year, she'll be learning in the
FBO's old 150s. I recommend the same for you -- and THEN buy yourself a
little deuce 'coupe...

:-)

(We flew Sweetie to an "ice cream social" fly-in at Capitol Airport in
Milwaukee, WI today. It took 2.1 hours to get there, 2.4 back -- she's not
speed demon -- but only took a grand total of 18 gallons of unleaded car gas
to do it! And, of course, everyone on the ramp wanted to know what it was,
which is kinda fun...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
Ercoupe N94856
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck writes:

The Ercoupe is incredibly easy to fly -- it was designed by Fred Weick (the
guy who later designed the Cherokee) to be "Everyman's Plane", the plane
that anyone can fly with minimal training after they come back from WWII.

To achieve this he made it as automotive as possible, with the yoke working
as a steering wheel on the ground, and the rudder pedals eliminated
completely. (The rudders are interconnected with the ailerons, and work
remarkably well at keeping the ball centered.)

So why didn't it catch on? In _Stick and Rudder_ Wolfgang regularly sings its
praises, without actually naming it.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Jay Honeck writes:

The Ercoupe is incredibly easy to fly -- it was designed by Fred
Weick (the guy who later designed the Cherokee) to be "Everyman's
Plane", the plane that anyone can fly with minimal training after
they come back from WWII.

To achieve this he made it as automotive as possible, with the yoke
working as a steering wheel on the ground, and the rudder pedals
eliminated completely. (The rudders are interconnected with the
ailerons, and work remarkably well at keeping the ball centered.)

So why didn't it catch on? In _Stick and Rudder_ Wolfgang regularly
sings its praises, without actually naming it.


They realised it might actaully entice idiots like you to fly.


Bertie

To achieve this he made it as automotive as possible, with the yoke
working
as a steering wheel on the ground, and the rudder pedals eliminated
completely. (The rudders are interconnected with the ailerons, and work
remarkably well at keeping the ball centered.)

So why didn't it catch on? In _Stick and Rudder_ Wolfgang regularly sings
its
praises, without actually naming it.

I think it's a bit too weird for most pilots to land in a crab. In a
cross-wind, without rudders you can't kick it straight, so you touch down in
a crab, which feels VERY strange the first few times you do it.

There's also the problem of not being able to cross-control/slip without
rudder pedals. If (for example) you're high on final approach in the
Ercoupe there's nothing you can do to correct it but retard the throttle.
If that's not enough to get your glide slope nailed, your only option is to
go around.

And, finally, it's sort of like asking why there are still manual
transmission cars on the road, when the automatic transmission has proven
itself to be superior in nearly all regards. Some people (myself included)
*like* to have full control of their vehicles, and that's what the rudder
pedals allow.

The nose-wheel/yoke connection sure makes a lot of sense though, doesn't it?
Ground steering with your feet never made/makes much sense to me.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
Ercoupe N94856
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:OWdqk.303325$yE1.116320@attbi_s21:

To achieve this he made it as automotive as possible, with the yoke
working
as a steering wheel on the ground, and the rudder pedals eliminated
completely. (The rudders are interconnected with the ailerons, and
work remarkably well at keeping the ball centered.)

So why didn't it catch on? In _Stick and Rudder_ Wolfgang regularly
sings its
praises, without actually naming it.

I think it's a bit too weird for most pilots to land in a crab. In a
cross-wind, without rudders you can't kick it straight, so you touch
down in a crab, which feels VERY strange the first few times you do
it.

There's also the problem of not being able to cross-control/slip
without rudder pedals. If (for example) you're high on final
approach in the Ercoupe there's nothing you can do to correct it but
retard the throttle. If that's not enough to get your glide slope
nailed, your only option is to go around.

And, finally, it's sort of like asking why there are still manual
transmission cars on the road, when the automatic transmission has
proven itself to be superior in nearly all regards. Some people
(myself included) *like* to have full control of their vehicles, and
that's what the rudder pedals allow.


You having full control of an airplane? You just admitted you kcik it
straight" in a crosswind.....


Don't make me laugh.

Oh wait,

Do.





Bertie

Jay Honeck writes:

The nose-wheel/yoke connection sure makes a lot of sense though, doesn't it?
Ground steering with your feet never made/makes much sense to me.

Agreed. Are there any other aircraft that you can steer on the ground with
the yoke?

Mxsmanic wrote:
Jay Honeck writes:

The nose-wheel/yoke connection sure makes a lot of sense though, doesn't it?
Ground steering with your feet never made/makes much sense to me.

Agreed. Are there any other aircraft that you can steer on the ground with
the yoke?

Just about every airplane use for primary instruction when taxied for
the first time by a new student (until the instructor shows them how to
use their feet :-))))

--
Dudley Henriques

Agreed. Are there any other aircraft that you can steer on the ground
with
the yoke?

Just about every airplane use for primary instruction when taxied for the
first time by a new student (until the instructor shows them how to use
their feet :-))))

ROTFL! For sure...

But I honestly can't think of any other plane that have
yoke-ground-steering, can you, Dudley?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
Ercoupe N94856
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Aug 17, 11:10 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Jay Honeck writes:
The Ercoupe is incredibly easy to fly -- it was designed by Fred Weick (the
guy who later designed the Cherokee) to be "Everyman's Plane", the plane
that anyone can fly with minimal training after they come back from WWII.

To achieve this he made it as automotive as possible, with the yoke working
as a steering wheel on the ground, and the rudder pedals eliminated
completely. (The rudders are interconnected with the ailerons, and work
remarkably well at keeping the ball centered.)

So why didn't it catch on? In _Stick and Rudder_ Wolfgang regularly sings its
praises, without actually naming it.

He actually does mention it a couple of times; it is what first gave
me the thought of getting one. I hate steering with my feet!