FOR SALE NEW NK CLEAR NAV

On Sep 10, 7:57*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Several of these devices you see coming out run Windows CE, from which
Windows Mobile is based. There is a fairly large market for Windows CE
based controllers/display nits for point of sale and similar
applications from which the ClearNav and presumably this one are
based. And leveraging existing technology is a good thing. Porting
Windows Mobile based applications like WinPilot and SeeYou Mobile to
these devices should be relatively easy.

Darryl

On Sep 10, 7:44*pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:



So, Richard, what operating system does it use? *I'm presuming is isn't
"Windows Vista Ultimate" due to the hardware requirements for Vista. *Google
doesn't turn up any other "Ultimate Operating System".

FWIW, Winpilot at one time (and maybe still) delivered a fully functional
Win32 version along with the PDA version. *GPS_LOG Win CE does this too.
All you need to run the Win32 versions is a computer with an X86 compatible
processor running some version of the Windows OS.

I often run GPS_LOG in one window on my desktop and SeeYou or Condor in
another. *I use a loopback serial cable to transfer NMEA data from SeeYor or
Condor from Com1 to Com2 where GPS_LOG picks it up and displays it. *It's a
great way to learn PDA software.

Bill D

"Richard" wrote in message

...
On Sep 10, 4:46 pm, Andy wrote:

On Sep 7, 6:47 am, Richard wrote:

The Craggy Aero Ultimate supports Borgelt Varios, B50, B500, CAI 302,
LX1600, or any NMEA GPS. Software WinPilot PRO or ADV.

Larger Screen , 4 times the resolution VGA, more processing power,
brighter adjustable display.

http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm

Shipping in October 2008.

The fact that it is intended to support see you mobile is a major plus
as far as I'm concerned. The SeeYou team has a good history of
supporting their software and for being open to user suggestions.
Will that also be available in October? Will users be able to load
software updates obtained directly from the See You web site?

Andy

Naviter has said they will support the Ultimate Platform, but have not
give a date. * It will be a new software package specific to the
Ulitimate operating system. * Current users probalby will not be able
to transfer their license. *I believe users will be able to update
from the SeeYou site or my web site.

Thanks for your interest.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Daryll,

The Craggy Ultimate uses a windows CE operating system.
Unfortunately Porting
Windows Mobile based applications like WinPilot and SeeYou Mobile to
these devices is not relatively easy. I have this feedback from both
WinPilot and Naviter.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Sep 11, 11:46*am, Richard wrote:
On Sep 10, 7:57*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:



Several of these devices you see coming out run Windows CE, from which
Windows Mobile is based. There is a fairly large market for Windows CE
based controllers/display nits for point of sale and similar
applications from which the ClearNav and presumably this one are
based. And leveraging existing technology is a good thing. Porting
Windows Mobile based applications like WinPilot and SeeYou Mobile to
these devices should be relatively easy.

Darryl

On Sep 10, 7:44*pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:

So, Richard, what operating system does it use? *I'm presuming is isn't
"Windows Vista Ultimate" due to the hardware requirements for Vista. *Google
doesn't turn up any other "Ultimate Operating System".

FWIW, Winpilot at one time (and maybe still) delivered a fully functional
Win32 version along with the PDA version. *GPS_LOG Win CE does this too.
All you need to run the Win32 versions is a computer with an X86 compatible
processor running some version of the Windows OS.

I often run GPS_LOG in one window on my desktop and SeeYou or Condor in
another. *I use a loopback serial cable to transfer NMEA data from SeeYor or
Condor from Com1 to Com2 where GPS_LOG picks it up and displays it. *It's a
great way to learn PDA software.

Bill D

"Richard" wrote in message

....
On Sep 10, 4:46 pm, Andy wrote:

On Sep 7, 6:47 am, Richard wrote:

The Craggy Aero Ultimate supports Borgelt Varios, B50, B500, CAI 302,
LX1600, or any NMEA GPS. Software WinPilot PRO or ADV.

Larger Screen , 4 times the resolution VGA, more processing power,
brighter adjustable display.

http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate.htm

Shipping in October 2008.

The fact that it is intended to support see you mobile is a major plus
as far as I'm concerned. The SeeYou team has a good history of
supporting their software and for being open to user suggestions.
Will that also be available in October? Will users be able to load
software updates obtained directly from the See You web site?

Andy

Naviter has said they will support the Ultimate Platform, but have not
give a date. * It will be a new software package specific to the
Ulitimate operating system. * Current users probalby will not be able
to transfer their license. *I believe users will be able to update
from the SeeYou site or my web site.

Thanks for your interest.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Daryll,

The Craggy Ultimate uses a windows CE operating system.
Unfortunately *Porting
Windows Mobile based applications like WinPilot and SeeYou Mobile to
these devices is not relatively easy. *I have this feedback from both
WinPilot and Naviter.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

Rchard

The meaning of the word relative is um err relative to something.
Relative to any other operating system I can think of, porting from
Windows Mobile to Windows CE is relatively easy. You clearly need to
make a choice of an appropriate Windows CE platform. Windows XP
Embedded, Windows XP, Windows Vista, OS/X, Linux or FreeBSD + GUI of
your choice, VxWorks, ..., ... are all going to be *much* harder.

Personally I'll pay much more attention to this space once Naviter has
SeeYou Mobile running on this class of devices. I'm getting old and
set in my ways and unwilling to change my software tools. Given the
space premium I also look forward to the day that a GUI flight
computer will fully include in one integrated package all soaring
specific instruments including a world class (C302 is my benchmark)
electronic audio vario, with inputs for gear warnings, etc. similar to
the 302. The display may be separate from the rest of the system, but
the display needs to be the display for as much as possible and the
system really needs to be properly integrated.

Darryl

I very much like the idea of a daylight readable screen and I am attracted
to the ClearNav and the Ultimate but they both puzzle me:

ClearNav - I don't understand the logic in having the GPS and logger
inside the display unit instead of in a compact panel mount
vario/gps/logger unit similar to the Cambridge 302. It may all make sense
if they come up with a very good and inexpensive compatible variometer.
Until then I'm out.

Ultimate - No matter how good the display I couldn't bring myself to pay
$2,500 (almost as much as the ClearNav) for a PDA replacement even
although it is bigger brighter and faster.

John Galloway

On Sep 11, 12:38*pm, John Galloway wrote:
I very much like the idea of a daylight readable screen and I am attracted
to the ClearNav and the Ultimate but they both puzzle me:

ClearNav - I don't understand the logic in having the GPS and logger
inside the display unit instead of in a compact panel mount
vario/gps/logger unit similar to the Cambridge 302. *It may all make sense
if they come up with a very good and inexpensive compatible variometer. *
Until then I'm out.

Ultimate - No matter how good the display I couldn't bring myself to pay
$2,500 (almost as much as the ClearNav) for a PDA replacement even
although it is bigger brighter and faster.

John Galloway

The ClearNav folks clearly have a team capable of doing a world class
vario/logger and say it's coming in 2009. Like you I don't fully
understand the logic of what they've done so far -- I'd prefer to see
a separate black box with GPS/logger/vario/airspeed/temp/undercarriage
sensors etc. all in once place with the display providing just display
and compute. Maybe support different version with basic GPS through to
full vario etc. in the black box, and with a goal of easily upgrading
either component over time as technology changes.

When CleanNav comes out with a vario I hope they have an option to
*not* have it panel mount. I would be out of space. A thin moving tape
type display for the vario might work well down the side of the
ClearNav for example. This becomes an issue when wanting to integrate
third party software like SeeYou with a device like this. The desire
to be integrated would mean you end up where it really is more than a
port of existing software.

Darryl

Anbody have side by side specs for the Ultimate and ClearNav? I
originally thought the Ultimate took more space and power; and seemed
to offer less function for the same $s, as you mentioned. But this
may be incorrect.

Steve

On Sep 11, 3:38*pm, John Galloway wrote:
I very much like the idea of a daylight readable screen and I am attracted
to the ClearNav and the Ultimate but they both puzzle me:

ClearNav - I don't understand the logic in having the GPS and logger
inside the display unit instead of in a compact panel mount
vario/gps/logger unit similar to the Cambridge 302. *It may all make sense
if they come up with a very good and inexpensive compatible variometer. *
Until then I'm out.

Ultimate - No matter how good the display I couldn't bring myself to pay
$2,500 (almost as much as the ClearNav) for a PDA replacement even
although it is bigger brighter and faster.

John Galloway

Hi Steve,

You can see specs on the ClearNav he
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/nk.htm

I'm curious about the user interface on the "Ultimate". I believe it is a
trackball. I personally would prefer the keypad used on the ClearNav to a
trackball.

I find the ClearNav's keypad to be very easy to use. Also, the ClearNav is
very much designed with "simple user-interface" as a key design
consideration. I think it succeeds at that goal superbly. I predict that
there will be many more ClearNav units sold than "Ultimate" systems. Also,
NK is a first class company that will be creating many very nice soaring
instruments in the near future and they (and I) will support the ClearNav
extremely well. But I'm biased because I sell, support and am writing the
manual for the ClearNav.

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"126Driver" wrote in message
...
Anbody have side by side specs for the Ultimate and ClearNav? I
originally thought the Ultimate took more space and power; and seemed
to offer less function for the same $s, as you mentioned. But this
may be incorrect.

Steve

On Sep 11, 3:38 pm, John Galloway wrote:
I very much like the idea of a daylight readable screen and I am attracted
to the ClearNav and the Ultimate but they both puzzle me:

ClearNav - I don't understand the logic in having the GPS and logger
inside the display unit instead of in a compact panel mount
vario/gps/logger unit similar to the Cambridge 302. It may all make sense
if they come up with a very good and inexpensive compatible variometer.
Until then I'm out.

Ultimate - No matter how good the display I couldn't bring myself to pay
$2,500 (almost as much as the ClearNav) for a PDA replacement even
although it is bigger brighter and faster.

John Galloway

I disagree strongly, the controls should be clustered around the screen.
The remote is just an other piece of hardware attached to a wire flying
around the cockpit. Naturally I can see and understand your bias.
There are products that function much closer to my way of thinking and I
am not bias. See http://www.triadis.ch
Udo

I find the ClearNav's keypad to be very easy to use. Also, the
ClearNav
is
very much designed with "simple user-interface" as a key design
consideration. I think it succeeds at that goal superbly. I predict
that

there will be many more ClearNav units sold than "Ultimate" systems.
Also,
NK is a first class company that will be creating many very nice soaring

instruments in the near future and they (and I) will support the ClearNav

extremely well. But I'm biased because I sell, support and am writing
the

I think a touch screen as on PDA's is still the most useful.....letting you
look directly at what you are trying to change rather than looking down at a
keypad, then back at a screen (and with all this going on attempting to look
outside as well...too many places and not enough eyes..apparently so do PC
Manufacturers as this seems to be the next breakthrough in desktop computing
several manufacturers are pursuing this line.
tim


"Udo Rumpf" wrote in message
...
I disagree strongly, the controls should be clustered around the screen.
The remote is just an other piece of hardware attached to a wire flying
around the cockpit. Naturally I can see and understand your bias.
There are products that function much closer to my way of thinking and I
am not bias. See http://www.triadis.ch
Udo

I find the ClearNav's keypad to be very easy to use. Also, the
ClearNav
is
very much designed with "simple user-interface" as a key design
consideration. I think it succeeds at that goal superbly. I predict
that

there will be many more ClearNav units sold than "Ultimate" systems.
Also,
NK is a first class company that will be creating many very nice soaring

instruments in the near future and they (and I) will support the ClearNav

extremely well. But I'm biased because I sell, support and am writing
the

Clearly both touch-screen and remotes have dedicated users. I prefer
a remote because I can't reach my instrument panel and have difficulty
touching the screen of a PDA in our turbulent western air.

Also, an early PDA system I had flew out of its cradle and landed
behind my back, where it was a little less than useful. I know the
new cradles are better, but I still prefer an instrument to be firmly
bolted to the panel.

I'm sure we'll see some good developments in the next year or two and
I'm watching these new developments closely, meanwhile I'll stick
with my SN10.

Mike

At 19:47 15 September 2008, Tim Mara wrote:
I think a touch screen as on PDA's is still the most useful.....letting
you

look directly at what you are trying to change rather than looking down
at
a
keypad, then back at a screen (and with all this going on attempting to
look
outside as well...too many places and not enough eyes..apparently so do
PC

Manufacturers as this seems to be the next breakthrough in desktop
computing
several manufacturers are pursuing this line.
tim


With a properly designed handheld remote, in my experience, you don't
need to look at the control at all.

John Galloway