It's Da' Spin,Boss! Da' Spin!

I think Ruger made a bolt action rifle chambered for the 7.62 x 39...
not sure if it's still available, though. They currently do, I think,
sell a Mini 30 which is the Mini 14 chambered for the 7.62 x 39 round.

John

wrote:
To all:

My mention, with regard to Hot Projects now on hold because I've been
diagnosed with cancer, of fitting a Siler lock to a hunk of American
Walnut which will become the stock of a blackpowder rifle caused narry
a ripple from Groups familiar with such things but got me several
questions from subscribers to other Groups including this one. As
usual, a lot of the comments were negative, such as '...I can't see
why someone would waste their time on black powder when they can buy a
more accurate rifle for a lot less money..." Others couldn't
understand why I was making a flinter when percussion caps were so
much better. The interesting point here was their definition of
'better.' :-)

But what prompts this message is the thought that the legendary
accuracy of black-powder weapons was merely myth. This was presented
to me by three or four folks who claimed to be experienced charcoal
burners with years of experience with a variety of muzzle-loading
weapons.

My exposure to black powder dates from WWII when my cousin David and
I were allowed to use a Civil War carbine to augment the amount of
protein in our family's diet. This rifle, which used percussion caps,
was used mostly as a shot gun, to take sitting ducks and geese since
neither of us were strong enough to take them on the wing. Also, in
so far as I know, there were no restrictions or rationing on black
powder, bird-shot, and percussion caps. (We used newspaper for
wadding.)

But with regard to the issue of accuracy, my grandfather owned a high-
precision black-powder target rifle of about .45 caliber that was
capable of cutting a clover-shaped 3-shot group at 100 yards and our
horribly mistreated Civil War smoke-pole was no slouch when used as a
rifle, able to keep all of its shots in about a dinner-plate sized
circle at 100 yards... once you'd doped the wind & drop.

So where does this fabled accuracy come from? While there are many
factors that contribute to the accuracy of a firearm, the main factor
in this case has to do with the rifling. Black powder is a relatively
low-energy propellant. The old rule of thumb for how much was needed
when fring plain round balls was a conical pile of medium-fine grade
black powder as high as the ball. Once that amount was determined you
would adjust your powder-horn or measure to give you that amount for
each shot. Measured with modern-day instruments, this old-fashioned
rule of thumb produced a velocity of about 800 feet per second.

The critical factor is the rifling, which is cut to give one
revolution for every 10 inches of bore. Now here comes the tricky
bits.
800 feet per second is 9600 inches per second
With rifling off 10 to 1, that's 960 revolutions per second (rps)
960 rps is equal to 57,600 rpm
...and that is one HELL of a lot of stability imparted to that lead
ball.

Spinning at nearly 60,000 rpm it takes a major input of energy to
deflect the ball. And unless the ball is deflected, it will fly
true. And that's how you get that 'mythical' accuracy... and discover
it isn't a myth at all.

There's lots of reasons to NOT use a muzzle-loader... but accuracy
isn't one of them. The reason most often give is the amount of work
to just load the damn thing. The powder goes in first, your powder-
wad, then the ball, then the ball-wad -- more newspaper. The weapon
was then half-cocked and the pan charged with fine-grain priming
powder, kept in the pan by the lid. The weapon could then be cocked
and fired. When the trigger was pulled, the fall of the hammer drives
the flint against the hardened-steel portion of the pan's cover,
pushing the cover out of the way and generating a stream of sparks
which fell into the charge of fine-grain priming powder causing it to
ignite. The shape of the priming pan and the presence of a touch-hole
though the side of the barrel... aligned with that portion of the
barrel charged with gunpowder, ignites the gunpowder. Upon ignition
the gunpowder drives the ball down the rifled bore of the barrel...
and you've just joined the ranks of the Charcoal Burners of America.

Is it fun? Damnbetcha, cowboy! :-)

Modern muzzle-loaders offer a host of improvements over traditional
cap & ball weapons and are miles above the more primitive 'Flinters'.
But if you're into gunsmithing -- at any level -- it's nice to show
how it all began, especially when training a youngster in the required
safety procedures that must be observed with ANY firearm. By starting
with basics, such as a flintlock rifle or pistol, it's pretty easy to
show how each improvement carried with it the need for additional
safety measures.

That exposure, especially with regard to youngsters, provides a handy
place to introduce them to the physics of the TONS of force needed to
deflect a lead ball less than half an inch in diameter but spinning at
nearly sixty THOUSAND rpm.

-R.S.Hoover

PS -- Here's one for you guys. Do you know of a rifle -- or even
just a barreled action -- for the 7.62x39mm round? I'm not interested
in an AK-47 (which uses this round) but its ballistics and the low
price of the ammunition would appear to make it a good round for a
light rifle, suitable for youngsters or women.

The last I heard, CZ was making a very nice bolt action rifle in
7.62x69mm com-block. I've looked around and I couldn't find a shop here
in Portland, OR that carried them but I've seen them in Shotgun News.

Tony

John Ammeter wrote:
I think Ruger made a bolt action rifle chambered for the 7.62 x 39...
not sure if it's still available, though. They currently do, I think,
sell a Mini 30 which is the Mini 14 chambered for the 7.62 x 39 round.

John

wrote:
To all:

My mention, with regard to Hot Projects now on hold because I've been
diagnosed with cancer, of fitting a Siler lock to a hunk of American
Walnut which will become the stock of a blackpowder rifle caused narry
a ripple from Groups familiar with such things but got me several
questions from subscribers to other Groups including this one. As
usual, a lot of the comments were negative, such as '...I can't see
why someone would waste their time on black powder when they can buy a
more accurate rifle for a lot less money..." Others couldn't
understand why I was making a flinter when percussion caps were so
much better. The interesting point here was their definition of
'better.' :-)

But what prompts this message is the thought that the legendary
accuracy of black-powder weapons was merely myth. This was presented
to me by three or four folks who claimed to be experienced charcoal
burners with years of experience with a variety of muzzle-loading
weapons.

My exposure to black powder dates from WWII when my cousin David and
I were allowed to use a Civil War carbine to augment the amount of
protein in our family's diet. This rifle, which used percussion caps,
was used mostly as a shot gun, to take sitting ducks and geese since
neither of us were strong enough to take them on the wing. Also, in
so far as I know, there were no restrictions or rationing on black
powder, bird-shot, and percussion caps. (We used newspaper for
wadding.)

But with regard to the issue of accuracy, my grandfather owned a high-
precision black-powder target rifle of about .45 caliber that was
capable of cutting a clover-shaped 3-shot group at 100 yards and our
horribly mistreated Civil War smoke-pole was no slouch when used as a
rifle, able to keep all of its shots in about a dinner-plate sized
circle at 100 yards... once you'd doped the wind & drop.

So where does this fabled accuracy come from? While there are many
factors that contribute to the accuracy of a firearm, the main factor
in this case has to do with the rifling. Black powder is a relatively
low-energy propellant. The old rule of thumb for how much was needed
when fring plain round balls was a conical pile of medium-fine grade
black powder as high as the ball. Once that amount was determined you
would adjust your powder-horn or measure to give you that amount for
each shot. Measured with modern-day instruments, this old-fashioned
rule of thumb produced a velocity of about 800 feet per second.

The critical factor is the rifling, which is cut to give one
revolution for every 10 inches of bore. Now here comes the tricky
bits.
800 feet per second is 9600 inches per second
With rifling off 10 to 1, that's 960 revolutions per second (rps)
960 rps is equal to 57,600 rpm
...and that is one HELL of a lot of stability imparted to that lead
ball.

Spinning at nearly 60,000 rpm it takes a major input of energy to
deflect the ball. And unless the ball is deflected, it will fly
true. And that's how you get that 'mythical' accuracy... and discover
it isn't a myth at all.

There's lots of reasons to NOT use a muzzle-loader... but accuracy
isn't one of them. The reason most often give is the amount of work
to just load the damn thing. The powder goes in first, your powder-
wad, then the ball, then the ball-wad -- more newspaper. The weapon
was then half-cocked and the pan charged with fine-grain priming
powder, kept in the pan by the lid. The weapon could then be cocked
and fired. When the trigger was pulled, the fall of the hammer drives
the flint against the hardened-steel portion of the pan's cover,
pushing the cover out of the way and generating a stream of sparks
which fell into the charge of fine-grain priming powder causing it to
ignite. The shape of the priming pan and the presence of a touch-hole
though the side of the barrel... aligned with that portion of the
barrel charged with gunpowder, ignites the gunpowder. Upon ignition
the gunpowder drives the ball down the rifled bore of the barrel...
and you've just joined the ranks of the Charcoal Burners of America.

Is it fun? Damnbetcha, cowboy! :-)

Modern muzzle-loaders offer a host of improvements over traditional
cap & ball weapons and are miles above the more primitive 'Flinters'.
But if you're into gunsmithing -- at any level -- it's nice to show
how it all began, especially when training a youngster in the required
safety procedures that must be observed with ANY firearm. By starting
with basics, such as a flintlock rifle or pistol, it's pretty easy to
show how each improvement carried with it the need for additional
safety measures.

That exposure, especially with regard to youngsters, provides a handy
place to introduce them to the physics of the TONS of force needed to
deflect a lead ball less than half an inch in diameter but spinning at
nearly sixty THOUSAND rpm.

-R.S.Hoover

PS -- Here's one for you guys. Do you know of a rifle -- or even
just a barreled action -- for the 7.62x39mm round? I'm not interested
in an AK-47 (which uses this round) but its ballistics and the low
price of the ammunition would appear to make it a good round for a
light rifle, suitable for youngsters or women.