I have problem. I correct the aileron the wrong way at takeoff

On Jan 20, 6:43*am, "vaughn"
wrote:
"Derek Copeland" wrote in message

...

So try making a slow turn to the right on a bike while holding the
handlebars to the left! Don't blame me when you fall off though!

* *This is getting rather far afield and has little or nothing to do with
flying, but turning a motorcycle is not as simple a process as you may
think. *Those who have any time on heavy motorcycles instinctivly apply
pressure to the handlebars OPPOSITE to the direction of the intended turn..
Because of the gyroscoptic precession of that big, heavy front wheel, this
tilts the bike, and it is the tilt that does the actual turning. *To roll
the bike back vertical and stop the turn, you apply handlebar pressure INTO
the turn.

Of course, when you are moving too slowly for that front wheel to act as a
gyro, the rules are reversed.

It is one of those things that is harder to explain than it is to do; it is
so instinctive that nobody really needs to teach you.

Vaughn *(About 100,000 miles on the same BMW)


Yep, It's best not to take the motorcycle analogy too far. It used to
be fun to point out the "reverse steering" concept and then watch as
tatooed bikers sat on the curb next to their bikes with vacant looks
on their faces - once they actually thought about it, they couldn't
ride anymore. Now, gyroscopic reverse steering is taught in
motorcycle riding classes.

Back to gliders.

I notice that there is some serious misunderstandings about how to
manage a takeoff roll. If you watch a series of takeoffs, you'll see
that most of the pilots are fighting their wing runners.

A useful rethink is to consider that the wing runners job is to
BALANCE the glider laterally not to just "level the wings". That way
the wing won't instantly fall when it's released. The runner should
find the 'zero force' point where the glider is perfectly balanced
into any crosswind and run the wing at that angle.

The pilot should let the wing runner do his job by holding the
ailerons exactly neutral until it's clear the runner is no longer
holding the wing - usually at "three Mississippi" and only then take
over roll control.

Brief your wing runner and then try it on your next takeoff. You'll
both find it much less stressful.

Bill Daniels

A useful rethink is to consider that the wing runners job is to
BALANCE the glider laterally not to just "level the wings". That way
the wing won't instantly fall when it's released. The runner should
find the 'zero force' point where the glider is perfectly balanced
into any crosswind and run the wing at that angle.

The pilot should let the wing runner do his job by holding the
ailerons exactly neutral until it's clear the runner is no longer
holding the wing

In mu humble opinion:
- The wing runner should make sure that the pilot knows what his
glider wants to do. For example, if the wing wants to fall - lower it,
just enough for the pilot to notice. His job is much better described
as "do not let the wing touch the ground" than "level the wings".
- The pilot should use correct control inputs to compensate for any
bank or yaw from the very beginning of the takeoff roll.

B.

On 20 Jan, 14:39, bildan wrote:

A useful rethink is to consider that the wing runners job is to
BALANCE the glider laterally not to just "level the wings". *That way
the wing won't instantly fall when it's released. * The runner should
find the 'zero force' point where the glider is perfectly balanced
into any crosswind and run the wing at that angle.

The pilot should let the wing runner do his job by holding the
ailerons exactly neutral until it's clear the runner is no longer
holding the wing - usually at "three Mississippi" and only then take
over roll control.

I think these two points are in contradiction. If the wing would fall
when released unless the pilot did something, it wasn't balanced.

As a wing runner I respond to any wing tip forces. Pre-take off, if my
tip is pushing down, I will let it go down, to the ground of
necessary, till the pilot uses aileron to cancel the forces, at which
point I will keep the wings (a) level and (b) balanced.

I expect the same when I'm the pilot.

This is particularly important when winch launching, as the pilot will
experience any unbalanced roll forces within a second or three of the
all out, and have very little time to correct.

Ian