F-35, not F-22, to Protect U.S. Airspace

150flivver wrote in news:359a3711-b5ea-4741-
:

On Feb 2, 3:08*am, hcobb wrote:
On Feb 2, 6:45 am, 150flivver wrote:

Exactly how was the Air Force supposed to prevent 9/11? *I guess the
Air Force wasn't prepared to prevent the banking crisis or global
warming either.

Which service is it that's supposed to at least intercept hostile
aircraft in American skies?

Perhaps this also should be handed over to the USMC?

-HJC

9/11 was a criminal act conducted by foreign criminals. Calling it

It was an act of war by a non-state actor. We quite properly
took it at face value and opened hostilities on the actors
and their supporters.

war doesn't make it so. Law enforcement is something I don't want the
military involved in. The FBI and CIA dropped the ball on this one,
not the Air Force. Shooting down airliners filled with hostages/
citizens is something the Soviet Union would do, not what the USA does.

The FBI and CIA had been knecapped by Jamie Gorelick at Klintoon's
behest. It was more than your career was worth to ask inconvenient
questions or, god forbid, share information. Many of the necessary
dots were already plotted. They just could not legally be connected
and it took an enormous effort against determined Dhimmicrap
opposition to change that situation.

IBM

On Feb 2, 9:51*pm, Ian B MacLure wrote:
150flivver wrote in news:359a3711-b5ea-4741-
:

On Feb 2, 3:08*am, hcobb wrote:
On Feb 2, 6:45 am, 150flivver wrote:

Exactly how was the Air Force supposed to prevent 9/11? *I guess the
Air Force wasn't prepared to prevent the banking crisis or global
warming either.

Which service is it that's supposed to at least intercept hostile
aircraft in American skies?

Perhaps this also should be handed over to the USMC?

-HJC

9/11 was a criminal act conducted by foreign criminals. *Calling it

* * * * It was an act of war by a non-state actor. We quite properly
* * * * took it at face value and opened hostilities on the actors
* * * * and their supporters.

war doesn't make it so. *Law enforcement is something I don't want the
military involved in. *The FBI and CIA dropped the ball on this one,
not the Air Force. *Shooting down airliners filled with hostages/
citizens is something the Soviet Union would do, not what the USA does.

* * * * The FBI and CIA had been knecapped by Jamie Gorelick at Klintoon's
* * * * behest. It was more than your career was worth to ask inconvenient
* * * * questions or, god forbid, share information. Many of the necessary
* * * * dots were already plotted. They just could not legally be connected
* * * * and it took an enormous effort against determined Dhimmicrap
* * * * opposition to change that situation.

* * * * IBM

IIRC Clinton left office in January 2001, the FBI and CIA continued
their feud that says "I won't tell you anything you can use", and FBI
telephone taps that should have been tied to that "Osama bin Ladin
wants to do harm to the US" line in the PDB. As near as I can tell
that division still exists, perhaps expanded by the NSA being able to
say "I know something you don't". We now have an extra level of DNI to
add to the various inter service and interagency versions of that same
attitude. I would bet that more useful intelligence gets stuffed into
burn bags than gets into the PDB.

Jack Linthicum wrote in
:

On Feb 2, 9:51*pm, Ian B MacLure wrote:
150flivver wrote in
news:359a3711-b5ea-4741-
:

On Feb 2, 3:08*am, hcobb wrote:
On Feb 2, 6:45 am, 150flivver wrote:

Exactly how was the Air Force supposed to prevent 9/11? *I guess
t
he
Air Force wasn't prepared to prevent the banking crisis or
global warming either.

Which service is it that's supposed to at least intercept hostile
aircraft in American skies?

Perhaps this also should be handed over to the USMC?

-HJC

9/11 was a criminal act conducted by foreign criminals. *Calling it

* * * * It was an act of war by a non-state actor. We quite prope
rly
* * * * took it at face value and opened hostilities on the actor
s
* * * * and their supporters.

war doesn't make it so. *Law enforcement is something I don't want
th
e
military involved in. *The FBI and CIA dropped the ball on this
one, not the Air Force. *Shooting down airliners filled with
hostages/ citizens is something the Soviet Union would do, not what
the USA does.

* * * * The FBI and CIA had been knecapped by Jamie Gorelick at K
lintoon's
* * * * behest. It was more than your career was worth to ask inc
onvenient
* * * * questions or, god forbid, share information. Many of the
necessary
* * * * dots were already plotted. They just could not legally be
connected
* * * * and it took an enormous effort against determined Dhimmic
rap
* * * * opposition to change that situation.

* * * * IBM

IIRC Clinton left office in January 2001, the FBI and CIA continued
their feud that says "I won't tell you anything you can use", and FBI

Funny you should mention that cause theres a PBS show on right
now about what was known about the 9/11 and how the FBI who had
agents assigned to the CIA unit tracking Bin Laden could not legally
be told what the CIA knew. So far all the narrative takes place
well prior to mid January 2001.

telephone taps that should have been tied to that "Osama bin Ladin
wants to do harm to the US" line in the PDB. As near as I can tell
that division still exists, perhaps expanded by the NSA being able to
say "I know something you don't". We now have an extra level of DNI to

Up until about two eeks ago any FedGov agency practicing that sort
of dog in the manger routine would ahve found themsleves assigned
to sorting through jihadi trash heaps in Indian country. Now that
Soetaro is calling the shots who knows?

add to the various inter service and interagency versions of that same
attitude. I would bet that more useful intelligence gets stuffed into
burn bags than gets into the PDB.

And yet the air over Pakistan is filed with the remains of recently
deceased al-Qaeda leaders.

IBM

On Feb 3, 10:47*pm, Ian B MacLure wrote:
Jack Linthicum wrote :



On Feb 2, 9:51*pm, Ian B MacLure wrote:
150flivver wrote in
news:359a3711-b5ea-4741-
:

On Feb 2, 3:08*am, hcobb wrote:
On Feb 2, 6:45 am, 150flivver wrote:

Exactly how was the Air Force supposed to prevent 9/11? *I guess
t
he
Air Force wasn't prepared to prevent the banking crisis or
global warming either.

Which service is it that's supposed to at least intercept hostile
aircraft in American skies?

Perhaps this also should be handed over to the USMC?

-HJC

9/11 was a criminal act conducted by foreign criminals. *Calling it

* * * * It was an act of war by a non-state actor. We quite prope
rly
* * * * took it at face value and opened hostilities on the actor
s
* * * * and their supporters.

war doesn't make it so. *Law enforcement is something I don't want
th
e
military involved in. *The FBI and CIA dropped the ball on this
one, not the Air Force. *Shooting down airliners filled with
hostages/ citizens is something the Soviet Union would do, not what
the USA does.

* * * * The FBI and CIA had been knecapped by Jamie Gorelick at K
lintoon's
* * * * behest. It was more than your career was worth to ask inc
onvenient
* * * * questions or, god forbid, share information. Many of the
necessary
* * * * dots were already plotted. They just could not legally be
*connected
* * * * and it took an enormous effort against determined Dhimmic
rap
* * * * opposition to change that situation.

* * * * IBM

IIRC Clinton left office in January 2001, the FBI and CIA continued
their feud that says "I won't tell you anything you can use", and FBI

* * * * Funny you should mention that cause theres a PBS show on right
* * * * now about what was known about the 9/11 and how the FBI who had
* * * * agents assigned to the CIA unit tracking Bin Laden could not legally
* * * * be told what the CIA knew. So far all the narrative takes place
* * * * well prior to mid January 2001.

telephone taps that should have been tied to that "Osama bin Ladin
wants to do harm to the US" line in the PDB. As near as I can tell
that division still exists, perhaps expanded by the NSA being able to
say "I know something you don't". We now have an extra level of DNI to

* * * * Up until about two eeks ago any FedGov agency practicing that sort
* * * * of dog in the manger routine would ahve found themsleves assigned
* * * * to sorting through jihadi trash heaps in Indian country. Now that
* * * * Soetaro is calling the shots who knows?

add to the various inter service and interagency versions of that same
attitude. I would bet that more useful intelligence gets stuffed into
burn bags than gets into the PDB.

* * * * And yet the air over Pakistan is filed with the remains of recently
* * * * deceased al-Qaeda leaders.

* * * * IBM

Yeah, but talk to anybody who has been in DC, cultures never change. I
remember when JFK wanted to dismember the CIA and strew it to the
winds over what it said about Cuba. i.e. they'd love us, rise up, we'd
be heroes (hmmm where have I heard that recently??).

Go read the seminal papers in political science on groupthink. there
is a reason they are still assigned 20 plus years later in graduate
school. I read them as an under grad, later after I decided to go back
for a PhD.

bureaucracies really get entrenched. one reason is they self select
for people that agree with the current mindset. pick an idea. fight
mafia in the USAF, anything. cultures are difficult to change. you
can't fire everybody.

maybe in a generation after all the old farts retire, you can get
something done.

there is probably a reason it took a good 20 plus years to get the IRA
to get to the peace table.

much as I admire the military, its not the solution to all the
problems. though its easier to go to a military solution.

On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 22:47:06 -0600, Ian B MacLure
wrote:

Funny you should mention that cause theres a PBS show on right
now about what was known about the 9/11 and how the FBI who had
agents assigned to the CIA unit tracking Bin Laden could not legally
be told what the CIA knew. So far all the narrative takes place
well prior to mid January 2001.

Ayup. The FBI and CIA always had separate spheres of influence but,
IIRC, the legal prohibition on sharing information dates to the '70s
when "anti-war activists" got the Congress to forbid exchanges of
information. I'm sure they thought they were dealing with an abuse of
power stemming from Viet Nam War era activities; just one more
demonstration of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

It remains to be seen what kind of "change" the new guy will put in
place in DC. So far he is a Master of the Media and Sultan of
Soundbites. The substance of anything is yet to be known.