Retrieve Contact - Radio Relay?

On Sep 20, 11:46*am, sisu1a wrote:


Does anyone have any real-life experience using this method? *Or any
input on how the FAA (in the US) might view this strategy?

- Frank

Pre-celly, this used to be common practice, and I suspect commonly

I'm not sure on the FAA's take on it,
but I imagine that it falls into the realm of legal usage of the freq.
The FCC however may feel otherwise if you aren't current on your
license to operate a 2 way

-Paul

This is a very valid techinique.
It is not to be used in place of normal comm procedures,
or to substitute for poor planning, but I have been party to using it
in several situations.

Local pilot wanders off on first Spring X-C, with no ship batteries,
poor handheld batteries, and more enthusiasm than sense.
When the day overbuilds and cuts him off from home, he outlands.
He calls in the blind on the 'approach' frequency, and gets an
enroute G.A. pilot to switch to the home airport CTAF and relay a
message. The airplane pilot handled his changes off/on to the
ATC frequency. Very considerate airplane guy, and happy to involve
himself. Knowing the enroute local ATC frfequency was about the
best part of the day's execution by that glider pilot.

Tonopah Nationals .... big CBs end the day, folks scattered all
over creation. Contest Air goes up to relay line-of-sight for crews
and
pilots seeking each other. Poor radio quality due to the HEAVY
rain showers and interior glider cockpit noise on the ground,
and lightning in many quadrants. Contest Air goes home. One
crew was enterprising enough to use scan function on their handy-
talkie and ask the airliner to switch for an 'urgent' relay. The
airliner
reached the pilot, now not in heavy rain on the ground, and got
his position and handed data to crew.

Remember to WAIT for the relay time and the other party out of
range to answer to the relaying airborn machine, rather than
stepping on transmissions. . .

Region 12 contest at Inyokern, 1999? Beloved silly Fred Ebner had
not been heard from and it was long after dark. We had launched
Contest Air for relays, sent Air on course line ( love those AST's
for finding folks late in the evenings), still never raised the pilot.
Phoned ATC to ask for the assistance on both possible
frequencies, and handled listening and thank yous from the
contest HQ ground. Three airplanes tried to help that
night. Turns out, Fred was hiking from the wrong side of the
Owens River, with no hand held, to cross the water and reach the
highway. He was tired, dry, cranky, and not in the mood to be
reprimanded for not either 1)staying with the glider, or 2) having
a ground communication method during the walk or 3) relaying
out from the glider prior to walking. We were certain to thank
ATC for their help with a follow up phone call when we found Fred.

Landouts can be serious for pilot health and safety in the
'boonies'. Communications can be important to prevent
unneccesary search or worries. If the radio work is handled
fairly professionally, with good cause, no one (FAA/FCC)
will make a fuss.

Cindy B
www.caracolesoaring.com

Please do call on 121.5!

I am one of the few looking for entertainment at FL 410 flying a
Citation Sovereign, and I have sat phone in this plane.

Besides, I'll be more than likely jealous of all theses CU's I will
have seen way, way below, and I wanna know how your day went!!!...:-)

Richard, limo driver
ASW19 on days off...
Phoenix,AZ

Earlier this summer, I answered a call on 123.300 from an glider pilot
flying overhead at FL370 asking how things were down there. So, I think
there are still many listening on frequencies we use, and on 121.500.

I also remember hearing Ned Wilson tell of calling a tower on 121.500 and
apologizing because he didn't know their frequency. By all means, use
121.500 if you need it. Tell them it is not life threatening (if indeed
it isn't), and someone will be happy to help.

This same tower had previously (not that day) not responded to calls by a
glider on their frequency. The glider was in their airspace and might be
needing to land at their airport. After his third or fourth call, the
tower responded in a winded voice "Say again calling tower? We were out
watching the glider!"

Steve Leonard

On Sep 20, 6:57*pm, CindyB wrote:
On Sep 20, 11:46*am, sisu1a wrote:



Does anyone have any real-life experience using this method? *Or any
input on how the FAA (in the US) might view this strategy?

- Frank

Pre-celly, this used to be common practice, and I suspect commonly
I'm not sure on the FAA's take on it,
but I imagine that it falls into the realm of legal usage of the freq.
The FCC however may feel otherwise if you aren't current on your
license to operate a 2 way

-Paul

This is a very valid techinique.
It is not to be used in place of normal comm procedures,
or to substitute for poor planning, but I have been party to using it
in several situations.

Local pilot wanders off on first Spring X-C, with no ship batteries,
poor handheld batteries, and more enthusiasm than sense.
When the day overbuilds and cuts him off from home, he outlands.
He calls in the blind on the 'approach' frequency, and gets an
enroute G.A. pilot to switch to the home airport CTAF and relay a
message. *The airplane pilot handled his changes off/on to the
ATC frequency. *Very considerate airplane guy, and happy to involve
himself. Knowing the enroute local ATC frfequency was about the
best part of the day's execution by that glider pilot.

Tonopah Nationals .... big CBs end the day, folks scattered all
over creation. *Contest Air goes up to relay line-of-sight for crews
and
pilots seeking each other. *Poor radio quality due to the HEAVY
rain showers and interior glider cockpit noise on the ground,
and lightning in many quadrants. *Contest Air goes home. *One
crew was enterprising enough to use scan function on their handy-
talkie and ask the airliner to switch for an 'urgent' relay. The
airliner
reached the pilot, now not in heavy rain on the ground, and got
his position and handed data to crew.

Remember to WAIT for the relay time and the other party out of
range to answer to the relaying airborn machine, rather than
stepping on transmissions. . .

Region 12 contest at Inyokern, 1999? *Beloved silly Fred Ebner had
not been heard from and it was long after dark. *We had launched
Contest Air for relays, sent Air *on course line ( love those AST's
for finding folks late in the evenings), still never raised the pilot.
Phoned ATC to ask for the assistance on both possible
frequencies, and handled listening and thank yous from the
contest HQ ground. *Three airplanes tried to help that
night. *Turns out, Fred was hiking from the wrong side of the
Owens River, with no hand held, to cross the water and reach the
highway. *He was tired, dry, cranky, and not in the mood to be
reprimanded for not either 1)staying with the glider, or 2) having
a ground communication method during the walk or 3) relaying
out from the glider prior to walking. *We were certain to thank
ATC for their help with a follow up phone call when we found Fred.

Landouts can be serious for pilot health and safety in the
'boonies'. *Communications can be important to prevent
unneccesary search or worries. *If the radio work is handled
fairly professionally, with good cause, no one *(FAA/FCC)
will make a fuss.

Cindy Bwww.caracolesoaring.com

A few years ago I shared a chair lift with an FAA big-wig and asked
the same.
Response was: a very valid method, provided you make intent clear,
i.e.: asking for relay, not an emergency.
I would also try Aircraft Corp. frequencies first, that are monitored.
Here is a good source:
http://ku4ay.net/scanner/airemergency.html
Bela

On Sep 21, 3:15*pm, Bela wrote:
On Sep 20, 6:57*pm, CindyB wrote:



On Sep 20, 11:46*am, sisu1a wrote:

Does anyone have any real-life experience using this method? *Or any
input on how the FAA (in the US) might view this strategy?

- Frank

Pre-celly, this used to be common practice, and I suspect commonly
I'm not sure on the FAA's take on it,
but I imagine that it falls into the realm of legal usage of the freq..
The FCC however may feel otherwise if you aren't current on your
license to operate a 2 way

-Paul

This is a very valid techinique.
It is not to be used in place of normal comm procedures,
or to substitute for poor planning, but I have been party to using it
in several situations.

Local pilot wanders off on first Spring X-C, with no ship batteries,
poor handheld batteries, and more enthusiasm than sense.
When the day overbuilds and cuts him off from home, he outlands.
He calls in the blind on the 'approach' frequency, and gets an
enroute G.A. pilot to switch to the home airport CTAF and relay a
message. *The airplane pilot handled his changes off/on to the
ATC frequency. *Very considerate airplane guy, and happy to involve
himself. Knowing the enroute local ATC frfequency was about the
best part of the day's execution by that glider pilot.

Tonopah Nationals .... big CBs end the day, folks scattered all
over creation. *Contest Air goes up to relay line-of-sight for crews
and
pilots seeking each other. *Poor radio quality due to the HEAVY
rain showers and interior glider cockpit noise on the ground,
and lightning in many quadrants. *Contest Air goes home. *One
crew was enterprising enough to use scan function on their handy-
talkie and ask the airliner to switch for an 'urgent' relay. The
airliner
reached the pilot, now not in heavy rain on the ground, and got
his position and handed data to crew.

Remember to WAIT for the relay time and the other party out of
range to answer to the relaying airborn machine, rather than
stepping on transmissions. . .

Region 12 contest at Inyokern, 1999? *Beloved silly Fred Ebner had
not been heard from and it was long after dark. *We had launched
Contest Air for relays, sent Air *on course line ( love those AST's
for finding folks late in the evenings), still never raised the pilot.
Phoned ATC to ask for the assistance on both possible
frequencies, and handled listening and thank yous from the
contest HQ ground. *Three airplanes tried to help that
night. *Turns out, Fred was hiking from the wrong side of the
Owens River, with no hand held, to cross the water and reach the
highway. *He was tired, dry, cranky, and not in the mood to be
reprimanded for not either 1)staying with the glider, or 2) having
a ground communication method during the walk or 3) relaying
out from the glider prior to walking. *We were certain to thank
ATC for their help with a follow up phone call when we found Fred.

Landouts can be serious for pilot health and safety in the
'boonies'. *Communications can be important to prevent
unneccesary search or worries. *If the radio work is handled
fairly professionally, with good cause, no one *(FAA/FCC)
will make a fuss.

Cindy Bwww.caracolesoaring.com

A few years ago I shared a chair lift with an FAA big-wig and asked
the same.
Response was: *a very valid method, provided you make intent clear,
i.e.: *asking for relay, not an emergency.
I would also try Aircraft Corp. frequencies first, that are monitored.
Here is a good source:http://ku4ay.net/scanner/airemergency.html
Bela

Other than 121.5, a good frequency would be the ATC sector frequency
for that area. These are shown on the IFR enroute charts and listed in
the DOD IFR supplement and probably in the Airport/Facility Directory.
This is what you would find with a scanning hand held radio, as some
are quite busy.

bgrly

On Sep 21, 3:35*pm, bgrly wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:15*pm, Bela wrote:



On Sep 20, 6:57*pm, CindyB wrote:

On Sep 20, 11:46*am, sisu1a wrote:

Does anyone have any real-life experience using this method? *Or any
input on how the FAA (in the US) might view this strategy?

- Frank

Pre-celly, this used to be common practice, and I suspect commonly
I'm not sure on the FAA's take on it,
but I imagine that it falls into the realm of legal usage of the freq.
The FCC however may feel otherwise if you aren't current on your
license to operate a 2 way

-Paul

This is a very valid techinique.
It is not to be used in place of normal comm procedures,
or to substitute for poor planning, but I have been party to using it
in several situations.

Local pilot wanders off on first Spring X-C, with no ship batteries,
poor handheld batteries, and more enthusiasm than sense.
When the day overbuilds and cuts him off from home, he outlands.
He calls in the blind on the 'approach' frequency, and gets an
enroute G.A. pilot to switch to the home airport CTAF and relay a
message. *The airplane pilot handled his changes off/on to the
ATC frequency. *Very considerate airplane guy, and happy to involve
himself. Knowing the enroute local ATC frfequency was about the
best part of the day's execution by that glider pilot.

Tonopah Nationals .... big CBs end the day, folks scattered all
over creation. *Contest Air goes up to relay line-of-sight for crews
and
pilots seeking each other. *Poor radio quality due to the HEAVY
rain showers and interior glider cockpit noise on the ground,
and lightning in many quadrants. *Contest Air goes home. *One
crew was enterprising enough to use scan function on their handy-
talkie and ask the airliner to switch for an 'urgent' relay. The
airliner
reached the pilot, now not in heavy rain on the ground, and got
his position and handed data to crew.

Remember to WAIT for the relay time and the other party out of
range to answer to the relaying airborn machine, rather than
stepping on transmissions. . .

Region 12 contest at Inyokern, 1999? *Beloved silly Fred Ebner had
not been heard from and it was long after dark. *We had launched
Contest Air for relays, sent Air *on course line ( love those AST's
for finding folks late in the evenings), still never raised the pilot..
Phoned ATC to ask for the assistance on both possible
frequencies, and handled listening and thank yous from the
contest HQ ground. *Three airplanes tried to help that
night. *Turns out, Fred was hiking from the wrong side of the
Owens River, with no hand held, to cross the water and reach the
highway. *He was tired, dry, cranky, and not in the mood to be
reprimanded for not either 1)staying with the glider, or 2) having
a ground communication method during the walk or 3) relaying
out from the glider prior to walking. *We were certain to thank
ATC for their help with a follow up phone call when we found Fred.

Landouts can be serious for pilot health and safety in the
'boonies'. *Communications can be important to prevent
unneccesary search or worries. *If the radio work is handled
fairly professionally, with good cause, no one *(FAA/FCC)
will make a fuss.

Cindy Bwww.caracolesoaring.com

A few years ago I shared a chair lift with an FAA big-wig and asked
the same.
Response was: *a very valid method, provided you make intent clear,
i.e.: *asking for relay, not an emergency.
I would also try Aircraft Corp. frequencies first, that are monitored.
Here is a good source:http://ku4ay.net/scanner/airemergency.html
Bela

Other than 121.5, a good frequency would be the ATC sector frequency
for that area. These are shown on the IFR enroute charts and listed in
the DOD IFR supplement and probably in the Airport/Facility Directory.
This is what you would find with a scanning hand held radio, as some
are quite busy.

bgrly

I carried these when I flew regularly out of Truckee. Got a retrieve
assist after landing out by calling on an overhead frequency then
moving to a discrete frequency.

Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:35 pm, bgrly wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:15 pm, Bela wrote:



On Sep 20, 6:57 pm, CindyB wrote:
On Sep 20, 11:46 am, sisu1a wrote:
Does anyone have any real-life experience using this method? Or any
input on how the FAA (in the US) might view this strategy?
- Frank
Pre-celly, this used to be common practice, and I suspect commonly
I'm not sure on the FAA's take on it,
but I imagine that it falls into the realm of legal usage of the freq.
The FCC however may feel otherwise if you aren't current on your
license to operate a 2 way
-Paul
This is a very valid techinique.
It is not to be used in place of normal comm procedures,
or to substitute for poor planning, but I have been party to using it
in several situations.
Local pilot wanders off on first Spring X-C, with no ship batteries,
poor handheld batteries, and more enthusiasm than sense.
When the day overbuilds and cuts him off from home, he outlands.
He calls in the blind on the 'approach' frequency, and gets an
enroute G.A. pilot to switch to the home airport CTAF and relay a
message. The airplane pilot handled his changes off/on to the
ATC frequency. Very considerate airplane guy, and happy to involve
himself. Knowing the enroute local ATC frfequency was about the
best part of the day's execution by that glider pilot.
Tonopah Nationals .... big CBs end the day, folks scattered all
over creation. Contest Air goes up to relay line-of-sight for crews
and
pilots seeking each other. Poor radio quality due to the HEAVY
rain showers and interior glider cockpit noise on the ground,
and lightning in many quadrants. Contest Air goes home. One
crew was enterprising enough to use scan function on their handy-
talkie and ask the airliner to switch for an 'urgent' relay. The
airliner
reached the pilot, now not in heavy rain on the ground, and got
his position and handed data to crew.
Remember to WAIT for the relay time and the other party out of
range to answer to the relaying airborn machine, rather than
stepping on transmissions. . .
Region 12 contest at Inyokern, 1999? Beloved silly Fred Ebner had
not been heard from and it was long after dark. We had launched
Contest Air for relays, sent Air on course line ( love those AST's
for finding folks late in the evenings), still never raised the pilot.
Phoned ATC to ask for the assistance on both possible
frequencies, and handled listening and thank yous from the
contest HQ ground. Three airplanes tried to help that
night. Turns out, Fred was hiking from the wrong side of the
Owens River, with no hand held, to cross the water and reach the
highway. He was tired, dry, cranky, and not in the mood to be
reprimanded for not either 1)staying with the glider, or 2) having
a ground communication method during the walk or 3) relaying
out from the glider prior to walking. We were certain to thank
ATC for their help with a follow up phone call when we found Fred.
Landouts can be serious for pilot health and safety in the
'boonies'. Communications can be important to prevent
unneccesary search or worries. If the radio work is handled
fairly professionally, with good cause, no one (FAA/FCC)
will make a fuss.
Cindy Bwww.caracolesoaring.com
A few years ago I shared a chair lift with an FAA big-wig and asked
the same.
Response was: a very valid method, provided you make intent clear,
i.e.: asking for relay, not an emergency.
I would also try Aircraft Corp. frequencies first, that are monitored.
Here is a good source:http://ku4ay.net/scanner/airemergency.html
Bela
Other than 121.5, a good frequency would be the ATC sector frequency
for that area. These are shown on the IFR enroute charts and listed in
the DOD IFR supplement and probably in the Airport/Facility Directory.
This is what you would find with a scanning hand held radio, as some
are quite busy.

bgrly

I carried these when I flew regularly out of Truckee. Got a retrieve
assist after landing out by calling on an overhead frequency then
moving to a discrete frequency.
Now there's something I was wondering about. How would you know which
discrete freq to use? Would 123.5 be appropriate, or is there a better one?

Ed

On Sep 22, 7:09*am, Ed Winchester wrote:
Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:35 pm, bgrly wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:15 pm, Bela wrote:

On Sep 20, 6:57 pm, CindyB wrote:
On Sep 20, 11:46 am, sisu1a wrote:
Does anyone have any real-life experience using this method? *Or any
input on how the FAA (in the US) might view this strategy?
- Frank
Pre-celly, this used to be common practice, and I suspect commonly
I'm not sure on the FAA's take on it,
but I imagine that it falls into the realm of legal usage of the freq.
The FCC however may feel otherwise if you aren't current on your
license to operate a 2 way
-Paul
This is a very valid techinique.
It is not to be used in place of normal comm procedures,
or to substitute for poor planning, but I have been party to using it
in several situations.
Local pilot wanders off on first Spring X-C, with no ship batteries,
poor handheld batteries, and more enthusiasm than sense.
When the day overbuilds and cuts him off from home, he outlands.
He calls in the blind on the 'approach' frequency, and gets an
enroute G.A. pilot to switch to the home airport CTAF and relay a
message. *The airplane pilot handled his changes off/on to the
ATC frequency. *Very considerate airplane guy, and happy to involve
himself. Knowing the enroute local ATC frfequency was about the
best part of the day's execution by that glider pilot.
Tonopah Nationals .... big CBs end the day, folks scattered all
over creation. *Contest Air goes up to relay line-of-sight for crews
and
pilots seeking each other. *Poor radio quality due to the HEAVY
rain showers and interior glider cockpit noise on the ground,
and lightning in many quadrants. *Contest Air goes home. *One
crew was enterprising enough to use scan function on their handy-
talkie and ask the airliner to switch for an 'urgent' relay. The
airliner
reached the pilot, now not in heavy rain on the ground, and got
his position and handed data to crew.
Remember to WAIT for the relay time and the other party out of
range to answer to the relaying airborn machine, rather than
stepping on transmissions. . .
Region 12 contest at Inyokern, 1999? *Beloved silly Fred Ebner had
not been heard from and it was long after dark. *We had launched
Contest Air for relays, sent Air *on course line ( love those AST's
for finding folks late in the evenings), still never raised the pilot.

On Sep 22, 9:16*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Sep 22, 7:09*am, Ed Winchester wrote:



Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:35 pm, bgrly wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:15 pm, Bela wrote:

On Sep 20, 6:57 pm, CindyB wrote:
On Sep 20, 11:46 am, sisu1a wrote:
Does anyone have any real-life experience using this method? *Or any
input on how the FAA (in the US) might view this strategy?
- Frank
Pre-celly, this used to be common practice, and I suspect commonly
I'm not sure on the FAA's take on it,
but I imagine that it falls into the realm of legal usage of the freq.
The FCC however may feel otherwise if you aren't current on your
license to operate a 2 way
-Paul
This is a very valid techinique.
It is not to be used in place of normal comm procedures,
or to substitute for poor planning, but I have been party to using it
in several situations.
Local pilot wanders off on first Spring X-C, with no ship batteries,
poor handheld batteries, and more enthusiasm than sense.
When the day overbuilds and cuts him off from home, he outlands.
He calls in the blind on the 'approach' frequency, and gets an
enroute G.A. pilot to switch to the home airport CTAF and relay a
message. *The airplane pilot handled his changes off/on to the
ATC frequency. *Very considerate airplane guy, and happy to involve
himself. Knowing the enroute local ATC frfequency was about the
best part of the day's execution by that glider pilot.
Tonopah Nationals .... big CBs end the day, folks scattered all
over creation. *Contest Air goes up to relay line-of-sight for crews
and
pilots seeking each other. *Poor radio quality due to the HEAVY
rain showers and interior glider cockpit noise on the ground,
and lightning in many quadrants. *Contest Air goes home. *One
crew was enterprising enough to use scan function on their handy-
talkie and ask the airliner to switch for an 'urgent' relay. The
airliner
reached the pilot, now not in heavy rain on the ground, and got
his position and handed data to crew.
Remember to WAIT for the relay time and the other party out of
range to answer to the relaying airborn machine, rather than
stepping on transmissions. . .
Region 12 contest at Inyokern, 1999? *Beloved silly Fred Ebner had
not been heard from and it was long after dark. *We had launched
Contest Air for relays, sent Air *on course line ( love those AST's
for finding folks late in the evenings), still never raised the pilot.
Phoned ATC to ask for the assistance on both possible
frequencies, and handled listening and thank yous from the
contest HQ ground. *Three airplanes tried to help that
night. *Turns out, Fred was hiking from the wrong side of the
Owens River, with no hand held, to cross the water and reach the
highway. *He was tired, dry, cranky, and not in the mood to be
reprimanded for not either 1)staying with the glider, or 2) having
a ground communication method during the walk or 3) relaying
out from the glider prior to walking. *We were certain to thank
ATC for their help with a follow up phone call when we found Fred.
Landouts can be serious for pilot health and safety in the
'boonies'. *Communications can be important to prevent
unneccesary search or worries. *If the radio work is handled
fairly professionally, with good cause, no one *(FAA/FCC)
will make a fuss.
Cindy Bwww.caracolesoaring.com
A few years ago I shared a chair lift with an FAA big-wig and asked
the same.
Response was: *a very valid method, provided you make intent clear,
i.e.: *asking for relay, not an emergency.
I would also try Aircraft Corp. frequencies first, that are monitored.
Here is a good source:http://ku4ay.net/scanner/airemergency.html
Bela
Other than 121.5, a good frequency would be the ATC sector frequency
for that area. These are shown on the IFR enroute charts and listed in
the DOD IFR supplement and probably in the Airport/Facility Directory.
This is what you would find with a scanning hand held radio, as some
are quite busy.

bgrly

I carried these when I flew regularly out of Truckee. *Got a retrieve
assist after landing out by calling on an overhead frequency then
moving to a discrete frequency.

Now there's something I was wondering about. *How would you know which
discrete freq to use? *Would 123.5 be appropriate, or is there a better one?

Ed

Long time ago, IIRC we moved to the Truckee base for the relay.

Frank

I'll add that it facilitated communications as I could hear half of
the conversation as could Tahoe-Truckee Soaring. If the IFR enroute
frequency had failed, I was quite prepared to call on 121.5 to
establish comms initially. I landed at a small strip with a barn/
hangar and house, but no one around and a non-working phone at the
hangar. Had to wait until day operations ended. No one arrived
before the evening tow home.

Frank