contrails

On 29 Dec 2009, 17:14, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 05:01:59 -0800, Tom Gardner wrote:
ObJoke: we don't have climate, we have weather!

Hence the saying "Climate is what you expect, weather is what you get".

We are having a very cold winter in the UK and Northern Europe (and so
I understand is North America). The whole of the UK is blanketed in
snow and gliding here has largely come to a halt. We also had a
relatively cold winter last year.

So the questions a

1) Are we entering another mini or maxi ice age?

2) Is man made global warming/climate change a scam dreamed up by
unscrupulous politicians, so they can control and tax us more? They
fund the scientists who are trying to prove the case, but not the
sceptical ones.

3) Will sea levels rise when all the snow and ice on the UK eventually
melts (tongue in cheek question)?

4) If the cold winter is down to recent man made global warming/
climate change, we also had particularly cold winters in 1982,
1962/63, 1948, and during the mini ice age period in the 14th - 19th
century. What caused them? Prior to the mini ice age, the British
Isles were warm enough to be a noted wine growing area!

Derek Copeland

While at one time it was valid to judge what was going on in the whole
world by what was happening in England, those days are passed. Your
local climate has little to say about what is globally in play with
climate. In fact, England should get a good deal colder with the
progression of global warming, the seas will dilute and the saline
gradient that drags warm water to your shores will cease to flow. It
would be catastrophic to many fisheries as well.

Mark Jardini

On 8 Jan, 06:57, Mark Jardini wrote:
While at one time it was valid to judge what was going on in the whole
world by what was happening in England, those days are passed. Your
local climate has little to say about what is globally in play with
climate. In fact, England should get a good deal colder with the
progression of global warming, the seas will dilute and the saline
gradient that drags warm water to your shores will cease to flow. It
would be catastrophic to many fisheries as well.

Mark Jardini

I did also mention Northern Europe and North America, so I was not
being a little Englander. Northern France and the other European
countries are also having a bad time.

The argument you are putting forward is that sea ice and the snow on
top of it will melt due to global warming and, being lower in salt
content, will dilute the salinity of oceans. In fact I wouldn't be
surprised to see an increase in sea ice this year. These things are
cyclical, and apparently there was little sea ice in the Medieval mini
warm period between the 9th and 13th Centuries. This allowed the
Vikings to settle in Iceland and Greenland. The ones in Greenland were
wiped out by cold weather in the 15th century. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age


The main reason our weather is so cold at the moment is that the
airmass is coming from the cold north-east polar regions due to a
blocking anticyclone, rather than from the more normal, more
temperate, south-west direction.

Derek Copeland

On Jan 8, 7:59*am, delboy wrote:
On 8 Jan, 06:57, Mark Jardini wrote:

While at one time it was valid to judge what was going on in the whole
world by what was happening in England, those days are passed. Your
local climate has little to say about what is globally in play with
climate. In fact, England should get a good deal colder with the
progression of global warming, the seas will dilute and the saline
gradient that drags warm water to your shores will cease to flow. It
would be catastrophic to many fisheries as well.

Mark Jardini

I did also mention Northern Europe and North America, so I was not
being a little Englander. Northern France and the other European
countries are also having a bad time.

The argument you are putting forward is that sea ice and the snow on
top of it will melt due to global warming and, being lower in salt
content, will dilute the salinity of oceans. In fact I wouldn't be
surprised to see an increase in sea ice this year. These things are
cyclical, and apparently there was little sea ice in the Medieval mini
warm period between the 9th and 13th Centuries. This allowed the
Vikings to settle in Iceland and Greenland. The ones in Greenland were
wiped out by cold weather in the 15th century. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

The main reason our weather is so cold at the moment is that the
airmass is coming from the cold north-east polar regions due to a
blocking anticyclone, rather than from the more normal, more
temperate, south-west direction.

Derek Copeland

Don't forget Mark's second point, which appears to be the more
significant in the long term. If the Gulf Stream shuts down then
olar bears will roam London (same latitude as Churchill in
Canada), presuming they haven't become extinct beforehand

Tom Gardner wrote:
On Jan 8, 7:59 am, delboy wrote:
On 8 Jan, 06:57, Mark Jardini wrote:

While at one time it was valid to judge what was going on in the whole
world by what was happening in England, those days are passed. Your
local climate has little to say about what is globally in play with
climate. In fact, England should get a good deal colder with the
progression of global warming, the seas will dilute and the saline
gradient that drags warm water to your shores will cease to flow. It
would be catastrophic to many fisheries as well.
Mark Jardini
I did also mention Northern Europe and North America, so I was not
being a little Englander. Northern France and the other European
countries are also having a bad time.

The argument you are putting forward is that sea ice and the snow on
top of it will melt due to global warming and, being lower in salt
content, will dilute the salinity of oceans. In fact I wouldn't be
surprised to see an increase in sea ice this year. These things are
cyclical, and apparently there was little sea ice in the Medieval mini
warm period between the 9th and 13th Centuries. This allowed the
Vikings to settle in Iceland and Greenland. The ones in Greenland were
wiped out by cold weather in the 15th century. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

The main reason our weather is so cold at the moment is that the
airmass is coming from the cold north-east polar regions due to a
blocking anticyclone, rather than from the more normal, more
temperate, south-west direction.

Derek Copeland

Don't forget Mark's second point, which appears to be the more
significant in the long term. If the Gulf Stream shuts down then
olar bears will roam London (same latitude as Churchill in
Canada), presuming they haven't become extinct beforehand


Here's an interesting picture of a bunch of folks protesting against
global warming....rather interesting...

http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/...rming-protest/

On Jan 8, 11:30*am, Scott wrote:

Here's an interesting picture of a bunch of folks protesting against
global warming....rather interesting...

http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/...-attend-global...

Excellent

On 8 Jan, 11:20, Tom Gardner wrote:
On Jan 8, 7:59*am, delboy wrote:





On 8 Jan, 06:57, Mark Jardini wrote:

While at one time it was valid to judge what was going on in the whole
world by what was happening in England, those days are passed. Your
local climate has little to say about what is globally in play with
climate. In fact, England should get a good deal colder with the
progression of global warming, the seas will dilute and the saline
gradient that drags warm water to your shores will cease to flow. It
would be catastrophic to many fisheries as well.

Mark Jardini

I did also mention Northern Europe and North America, so I was not
being a little Englander. Northern France and the other European
countries are also having a bad time.

The argument you are putting forward is that sea ice and the snow on
top of it will melt due to global warming and, being lower in salt
content, will dilute the salinity of oceans. In fact I wouldn't be
surprised to see an increase in sea ice this year. These things are
cyclical, and apparently there was little sea ice in the Medieval mini
warm period between the 9th and 13th Centuries. This allowed the
Vikings to settle in Iceland and Greenland. The ones in Greenland were
wiped out by cold weather in the 15th century. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

The main reason our weather is so cold at the moment is that the
airmass is coming from the cold north-east polar regions due to a
blocking anticyclone, rather than from the more normal, more
temperate, south-west direction.

Derek Copeland

Don't forget Mark's second point, which appears to be the more
significant in the long term. If the Gulf Stream shuts down then
olar bears will roam London (same latitude as Churchill in
Canada), presuming they haven't become extinct beforehand - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After a month in a mini ice age, the UK winter weather has become its
normal mild and moist self, so the Gulf Stream must still be working.
So sorry polar bears, your habitat range won't be extending to the
British Isles yet!

Derek Copeland

On Jan 17, 5:37*am, delboy wrote:
On 8 Jan, 11:20, Tom Gardner wrote:



On Jan 8, 7:59*am, delboy wrote:

On 8 Jan, 06:57, Mark Jardini wrote:

While at one time it was valid to judge what was going on in the whole
world by what was happening in England, those days are passed. Your
local climate has little to say about what is globally in play with
climate. In fact, England should get a good deal colder with the
progression of global warming, the seas will dilute and the saline
gradient that drags warm water to your shores will cease to flow. It
would be catastrophic to many fisheries as well.

Mark Jardini

I did also mention Northern Europe and North America, so I was not
being a little Englander. Northern France and the other European
countries are also having a bad time.

The argument you are putting forward is that sea ice and the snow on
top of it will melt due to global warming and, being lower in salt
content, will dilute the salinity of oceans. In fact I wouldn't be
surprised to see an increase in sea ice this year. These things are
cyclical, and apparently there was little sea ice in the Medieval mini
warm period between the 9th and 13th Centuries. This allowed the
Vikings to settle in Iceland and Greenland. The ones in Greenland were
wiped out by cold weather in the 15th century. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

The main reason our weather is so cold at the moment is that the
airmass is coming from the cold north-east polar regions due to a
blocking anticyclone, rather than from the more normal, more
temperate, south-west direction.

Derek Copeland

Don't forget Mark's second point, which appears to be the more
significant in the long term. If the Gulf Stream shuts down then
olar bears will roam London (same latitude as Churchill in
Canada), presuming they haven't become extinct beforehand - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

After a month in a mini ice age, the UK winter weather has become its
normal mild and moist self, so the Gulf Stream must still be working.
So sorry polar bears, your habitat range won't be extending to the
British Isles yet!

Derek Copeland

I wrote nothing whatsoever that would justify your comment,
nor did I imply it.

Your attempt to associate me with such ignorant concepts
(not knowing the difference between climate and weather)
is offensive. *Please do not do it again*.

Unfortunately this kind of misrepresentation and
cherry-picking data appears to be all too prevalent
in the denialist community. Anybody reading your
comments with an open mind would start to doubt your
sincerity. It does the denialist cause no good whatsoever.

On 17 Jan, 08:04, Tom Gardner wrote:

After a month in a mini ice age, the UK winter weather has become its
normal mild and moist self, so the Gulf Stream must still be working.
So sorry polar bears, your habitat range won't be extending to the
British Isles yet!

Derek Copeland

I wrote nothing whatsoever that would justify your comment,
nor did I imply it.

Your attempt to associate me with such ignorant concepts
(not knowing the difference between climate and weather)
is offensive. *Please do not do it again*.

Unfortunately this kind of misrepresentation and
cherry-picking data appears to be all too prevalent
in the denialist community. Anybody reading your
comments with an open mind would start to doubt your
sincerity. It does the denialist cause no good whatsoever.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Being a bit touchy aren't we Tom? If you want to present AGW/Climate
Change as a religion (which it seems to have become), then I am
neither a believer or a disbeliever (denialist), but an agnostic. The
latest data on World temperatures, which show a slight cooling, do not
correlate with the theory, so that is why.

Unfortunately the UK Government have taken AGW into its policies, so
they have introduced various taxes and duties that are based on CO2
emissions. They are therefore trying to control and tax our population
based on an unproven scientific theory, which is what I particularly
object to!

Derek Copeland

On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 23:59:25 -0800, delboy wrote:

The argument you are putting forward is that sea ice and the snow on top
of it will melt due to global warming and, being lower in salt content,
will dilute the salinity of oceans. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to
see an increase in sea ice this year. These things are cyclical, and
apparently there was little sea ice in the Medieval mini warm period
between the 9th and 13th Centuries. This allowed the Vikings to settle
in Iceland and Greenland. The ones in Greenland were wiped out by cold
weather in the 15th century. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

The best reference I've seen so far about this is:
http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/lia/index.html

A page of it was originally quoted to show how far the Gulf Stream's
effects extend into the Arctic but I found the whole thing a most
interesting read.


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gregorie. | Essex, UK
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