contrails

On Jan 11, 7:54*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Gary Evans wrote:
It may be a little premature to decommission your home heating system
just yet.

http://tinyurl.com/yj52vby

Hi Gary - you need to read beyond the article, and look at their
reference. Here is what I posted earlier---------------

And along those lines, be sure to read what the US National Snow and Ice
Data Centre in Colorado, a source they reference, says regarding 2009:

"Arctic sea ice extent remains low; 2009 sees third-lowest mark"

"We still expect to see ice-free summers sometime in the next few decades..”

"Arctic sea ice extent at end of December 2009 remained below normal"

"The linear rate of decline for December is now 3.3% per decade."

"Despite the cool summer, the ice remained thin and vulnerable at the
sea ice minimum, with little of the older, thicker ice that used to
characterize much of the Arctic."

"Only 19 percent of the ice cover was over 2 years old, the least in the
satellite record and far below the 1981-2000 average of 52 percent."

Finally, look at fig. 3 on this page:

http://nsidc.org/news/press/20091005_minimumpr.html

No good news at the NSIDC, unfortunately, despite The Mail's spin on it.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly


Eric, have you looked at all of the information on Rutan's web site?
http://tinyurl.com/pfy9tk
There is just so much conflicting information out there and both sides
are soooo convinced that they have it right.
There appears to be just as good an argument on either side but as I
mentioned before religions require both faith and sacrifice. If you
really think the ice is going away there are two choices. One is to
try and convince everyone else that they must join the new religion of
self-flagellation and some how turn this whole thing around by paying
third world countries not to cut down any more trees. The other more
direct action would be to measure exactly how high your house is above
the sea level and act accordingly while prices are still up. You do
live on high ground right?

On Jan 12, 6:16*am, Gary Evans wrote:

Eric, have you looked at all of the information on Rutan's web site?http://tinyurl.com/pfy9tk

The silence is almost deafening.

Rutan has an immense measure of credibility. He has spent his career
analyzing and making sense of large quantities of often conflicting
data. History has shown that he is very, very good at it. He also
has nothing, at least financial, to gain one way or the other.

Regards,

-Doug

On Jan 13, 9:28*pm, Doug Hoffman wrote:
On Jan 12, 6:16*am, Gary Evans wrote:

Eric, have you looked at all of the information on Rutan's web site?http://tinyurl.com/pfy9tk

The silence is almost deafening.

Rutan has an immense measure of credibility. *He has spent his career
analyzing and making sense of large quantities of often conflicting
data. *History has shown that he is very, very good at it. *He also
has nothing, at least financial, to gain one way or the other.

Regards,

-Doug

It's amazing that all the 'scientific' climate deniers have zero
credibility as climatologists.

My leading aeronautical engineering hero is Kelly Johnson of
Lockheed. Jack Northrop and "Dutch" Kindelburger make the list too -
Burt Rutan doesn't.

On Jan 13, 11:43*pm, bildan wrote:
On Jan 13, 9:28*pm, Doug Hoffman wrote:

On Jan 12, 6:16*am, Gary Evans wrote:

Eric, have you looked at all of the information on Rutan's web site?http://tinyurl.com/pfy9tk

The silence is almost deafening.

Rutan has an immense measure of credibility. *He has spent his career
analyzing and making sense of large quantities of often conflicting
data. *History has shown that he is very, very good at it. *He also
has nothing, at least financial, to gain one way or the other.


It's amazing that all the 'scientific' climate deniers have zero
credibility as climatologists.

My leading aeronautical engineering hero is Kelly Johnson of
Lockheed. *Jack Northrop and "Dutch" Kindelburger make the list too -
Burt Rutan doesn't.

Yeah, Rutan is a real lightweight with no significant scientific
accomplishments. He's certainly no rocket scientist. So let's all
just accept, without question, the clearly non-political Carbon Tax
legislation when it comes.

I wonder what the reaction of "just plain folk" will be when they
start getting billed by the feds for their excess "carbon footprint"
whenever their monthly electricity consumption exceeds the mandated
limit. Or their meat consumption is in excess. Or their gasoline use
exceeds allowable limits. Or.... (fill in the many possibilities).
Can you say $150 tow...

Regards,

-Doug

On Jan 15, 10:59*am, Doug Hoffman wrote:
Yeah, Rutan is a real lightweight with no significant scientific
accomplishments. *

Correct, in the area under discussion.

He's certainly no rocket scientist. *

Almost false - he's damn close to that!

So let's all
just accept, without question, the clearly non-political Carbon Tax
legislation when it comes.

A complete non-sequiteur.

Just *what* does a very iffy concept and potential legislation
(Carbon Tax) have to do with proving/disproving climate change?

Doug Hoffman wrote:
It's amazing that all the 'scientific' climate deniers have zero
credibility as climatologists.

My leading aeronautical engineering hero is Kelly Johnson of
Lockheed. Jack Northrop and "Dutch" Kindelburger make the list too -
Burt Rutan doesn't.


Yeah, Rutan is a real lightweight with no significant scientific
accomplishments.
What are his scientific accomplishments? I'm aware of his many of his
engineering and business achievements, but not the scientific ones.
He's certainly no rocket scientist.
True. If he was, we could read the peer reviewed papers he's written for
rocket science journals.

You know, I'm sure, that he doesn't do all that great stuff by himself.
He hires people that know what they are doing to help him with the
tricky bits he's not familiar with. If he had done that for his foray
into climate science, that presentation he wrote would be much, much better.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Doug Hoffman wrote:
On Jan 12, 6:16 am, Gary Evans wrote:


Eric, have you looked at all of the information on Rutan's web site?http://tinyurl.com/pfy9tk


The silence is almost deafening.

I try not to make RAS my life, so I usually read it only in the evening
;-)
Rutan has an immense measure of credibility. He has spent his career
analyzing and making sense of large quantities of often conflicting
data. History has shown that he is very, very good at it. He also
has nothing, at least financial, to gain one way or the other.
Rutan is one of my heroes, and he has had a remarkable career as an
engineer and business man, but he has NO credibility as a climate
scientist. Would you climb into an airplane designed and built by any of
the leading climate scientists? No, and neither would I. It doesn't make
any more sense to assume Rutan is going to do climate science well, either.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

On Jan 13, 10:43*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Doug Hoffman wrote:
On Jan 12, 6:16 am, Gary Evans wrote:

Eric, have you looked at all of the information on Rutan's web site?http://tinyurl.com/pfy9tk

The silence is almost deafening.

I try not to make RAS my life, so I usually read it only in the evening *
;-) Rutan has an immense measure of credibility. *He has spent his career
analyzing and making sense of large quantities of often conflicting
data. *History has shown that he is very, very good at it. *He also
has nothing, at least financial, to gain one way or the other.

Rutan is one of my heroes, and he has had a remarkable career as an
engineer and business man, but he has NO credibility as a climate
scientist. Would you climb into an airplane designed and built by any of
the leading climate scientists? No, and neither would I. It doesn't make
any more sense to assume Rutan is going to do climate science well, either.

On Jan 14, 11:51*am, Gary Evans wrote:
He (Rutan)simply found
information from other experts who have a differant slant of the issue
and put it together.

Anybody can cherrypick facts/evidence to prove whatever they
want - i.e. it is easy to "slant" in any direction whatsoever.

That's easy and cheap.

What's difficult and worthwhile is to balance all the available
evidence, pro con and neutral, to come to balanced judgement.

I think thats pretty commendable

No, it isn't - see above.

On Jan 15, 8:47*am, Tom Gardner wrote:
On Jan 14, 11:51*am, Gary Evans wrote:

He (Rutan)simply found
information from other experts who have a differant slant of the issue
and put it together.

Anybody can cherrypick facts/evidence to prove whatever they
want - i.e. it is easy to "slant" in any direction whatsoever.

That's easy and cheap.

What's difficult and worthwhile is to balance all the available
evidence, pro con and neutral, to come to balanced judgement.

I think thats pretty commendable

No, it isn't - see above.

"Anybody can cherrypick facts/evidence to prove whatever they
want - i.e. it is easy to "slant" in any direction whatsoever."

Your right on that and I think that was Rutan's point.