They call it the impossible turn.

Jim Logajan wrote
Demonstration of unpowered 180 degree turnback to the takeoff airfield
from altitudes as low as 200 ft was required of my fixed wing student
pilot training curriculum. I've done it in a real aircraft.
My experience was not rare, either. All the CFIs I've flown with have
done it.

Sure.....in a Sailplane with a 30:1 glide ratio,
Sure-as-hell not in a Cessna or Piper with a 9:1 glide.

Bob Moore
ATP CFIing since 1970

Robert Moore wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote
Demonstration of unpowered 180 degree turnback to the takeoff airfield
from altitudes as low as 200 ft was required of my fixed wing student
pilot training curriculum. I've done it in a real aircraft.
My experience was not rare, either. All the CFIs I've flown with have
done it.

Sure.....in a Sailplane with a 30:1 glide ratio,

Sure - you understood what I was talking about, but clearly Mxsmanic had no
clue or he wouldn't have made the sweeping claim he did.

As an aside, it is possible with an SGS 2-33A (the trainer our club has,)
which has a best glide ratio of only about 22:1.

Sure-as-hell not in a Cessna or Piper with a 9:1 glide.

Indeed - but Mxsmanic's opinion (presented as fact) was that circumstances
where you can safely perform unpowered turnbacks are "very rare" - which of
course isn't true in the sweeping way he put it.

As an interesting aside, I notice that some newer "glass" airplanes have
surprisingly high glide ratios (like the Arion Lightning with a L/D ratio
of 17:1) not to mention all motor gliders (though there would normally be
no need to practice low altitude "rope break" turnbacks for them!)

Jim Logajan writes:

Sure - you understood what I was talking about, but clearly Mxsmanic had no
clue or he wouldn't have made the sweeping claim he did.

The topic of the thread concerns the high risk of attempting to return to an
airport after losing all power after takeoff. It's hard to see how this would
be applicable to gliders, since they do not take off and they are not powered.

As an aside, it is possible with an SGS 2-33A (the trainer our club has,)
which has a best glide ratio of only about 22:1.

What's on the checklist for total power failure during a climb after takeoff
for this aircraft?

Indeed - but Mxsmanic's opinion (presented as fact) was that circumstances
where you can safely perform unpowered turnbacks are "very rare" - which of
course isn't true in the sweeping way he put it.

They are indeed very rare with any aircraft that fits the category covered by
the topic, namely, powered fixed-wing aircraft. Gliders, helicopters, hot-air
balloons, and blimps are not in that category.

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Jim Logajan writes:

Sure - you understood what I was talking about, but clearly Mxsmanic had no
clue or he wouldn't have made the sweeping claim he did.

The topic of the thread concerns the high risk of attempting to return to an
airport after losing all power after takeoff. It's hard to see how this would
be applicable to gliders, since they do not take off and they are not powered.

They certainly do take off, or how would they get into the air?

And they are powered by an engine at the end of a rope.



--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

They certainly do take off, or how would they get into the air?

By being towed there.

And they are powered by an engine at the end of a rope.

See above.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

They certainly do take off, or how would they get into the air?

By being towed there.

A take off is a take off.


And they are powered by an engine at the end of a rope.

See above.

So by your logic if the engine at the end of the rope quites, there is
no problem because it isn't directly bolted to the glider?



--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

A take off is a take off.

So why is someone with only a license to fly an airplane not allowed to take
off in a helicopter?

So by your logic if the engine at the end of the rope quites, there is
no problem because it isn't directly bolted to the glider?

There is no engine at the end of the rope; there's another aircraft at the end
of the rope.

The recovery technique for a glider is different from that for a powered
airplane. It's as simple as that. For powered airplanes, trying to turn around
and go back to the airport after a total power loss on takeoff is a really,
really bad idea.

On Feb 15, 12:36*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

The topic of the thread concerns the high risk of attempting to return to an
airport after losing all power after takeoff. It's hard to see how this would
be applicable to gliders, since they do not take off and they are not powered.

Winch rope breaks - aerotow rope breaks.
I'm amused at the claim that gliders do not 'takeoff' and there's now
a number of powered gliders out there..
Mixedups research stops at the GA gate

george writes:

Winch rope breaks - aerotow rope breaks.

Even then, it's not quite the same as being in a powered airplane. A glider is
designed to fly without power; a powered aircraft is not.

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
george writes:

Winch rope breaks - aerotow rope breaks.

Even then, it's not quite the same as being in a powered airplane. A glider is
designed to fly without power; a powered aircraft is not.

Yep, powered aircraft stop flying and just flutter willy-nilly to the ground
without power.


--
Jim Pennino

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